My $.02 (June 7th):

I have been a cardschat member for almost 2 months. Newer members cannot readily tell whether the advice that they are getting from other members is coming from someone who is an intermediate player or advanced, has made money overall or lost it. Predictably, human beings in a social setting such as this, will use the opportunity to nourish their own egos. (Yes, I see the irony – I am after all a human being, whether I like it or not). To this end, many will not be truthful about their success or lack of it.
My history: I learned how to play Texas Holdem about 3 ½ years ago. After 1 year, I started playing for money. I broke even for 2 years, then I lost about $400 in two months. That was last Nov and Dec - I have not funded any account since then, and am in no hurry to do so any time soon. I cannot see how this will necessarily help anyone, but my sincerest hope is that it will, if only to let them proclaim: “Well, at least I'm better than that guy!” … Cheers.

NCfoldem said:

I have been a cardschat member for almost 2 months. Newer members cannot readily tell whether the advice that they are getting from other members is coming from someone who is an intermediate player or advanced, has made money overall or lost it. Predictably, human beings in a social setting such as this, will use the opportunity to nourish their own egos. (Yes, I see the irony – I am after all a human being, whether I like it or not). To this end, many will not be truthful about their success or lack of it.
My history: I learned how to play Texas Holdem about 3 ½ years ago. After 1 year, I started playing for money. I broke even for 2 years, then I lost about $400 in two months. That was last Nov and Dec - I have not funded any account since then, and am in no hurry to do so any time soon. I cannot see how this will necessarily help anyone, but my sincerest hope is that it will, if only to let them proclaim: “Well, at least I'm better than that guy!” … Cheers.

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I think you started off on a pretty noble cause here but I think anybody who is going to become a sucsessfull player will seek out many different forms of information and use it all in different ways. If I read a post that I dont really understand then it makes me want to try and understand it, also its good that some people have nfi what they are posting about because usally they get put straight and corrected helping us, them and alot of the times making the dicussions more informative and intresting.

I think if I got of my arse and posted more I would be learning more from people telling me no thats wrong and me going and checking why via books, vids or just threads on the forum.

My $.02 (June 8th):

Often the posts on cards chats are: “How should I have played this hand?” followed by a description or details of the hand. The problem here, is that how a hand should be played is completely dependent on the other players at the table, perhaps even the tourney itself. Obviously there are some general principles that one could discuss, but few could offer helpful advice out of context like this. Crunching the numbers gets one even more off point. Poker is an art as well as a science, and both should be considered when offering advice. I have received helpful advice when I have described not a single hand (the out of context problem), but situations that I often find myself in, due to bad poker behavioral patterns on my part. The exception to this might come from a beginner who has much to learn about basic strategy. My advice (take it or leave it), is to explain the kinds of situations you repeatedly have problems with. I recently complained about being short-stacked too often deep into tournaments, for example, and was given some very good advice by fellow cardschat members. Maybe some of you can get good advice in this way as well.

Thank you for your feedback, Mr. M. !

Crunching numbers can be irrelevant if done improperly, but not if done properly. They provide some of the context you are looking for - you have different expectations of the hands a player is playing if he only sees 12% of flops vs. another player who sees 35% of flops. A player who 3bets 8% of the time on the btn is 3betting more hands than just KK+/AK. Determining pot equity, cEv, and $Ev are all important considerations in how you play a specific hand - obviously not independent of the stage of the tourney, the goals of the player (itm, win, etc.), table conditions, etc.

Of course, the context for cash games, due to an unchanging blind structure, is different than for MTT's and SnG's, since the increasing blind structure changes players' decision making processes. In cash games, though, the stats are a large part of the context, as they represent the overall tendencies of the player as far as can be statistically captured - players tend not to change gears to frequently in micro/small stakes cash games the way they do in MTT's. Notes are key, obviously, to pick up what can't be statistically captured (how does Villain play big draws, does Villain overvalue overpairs, does Villain's betsizing tell me anything about bluffing frequency, does Villain try to play at specific types of players, is there a specific fish at the table everyone's trying to get at, etc.).

Regardless, the upshot of your suggestion is that you think hand analysis is a waste of time, because there is no way to capture context effectively? Note that many of the best cash and tourney players around today, from Tom Dwan to Taylor Caby to Krantz to BalugaWhale to (insert name of high profile online poker player) learned the game partly through heavy participation in HA forums. Note also that most of those discussions, whether here or on other forums, include heavy doses of math.

That said, looking for general themes and getting feedback on those themes are certainly a good idea. I hope, though, that people recognize the value that HA provides to learning players.

NCfoldem said:

I cannot see how this will necessarily help anyone, but my sincerest hope is that it will, if only to let them proclaim: “Well, at least I'm better than that guy!”

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Well, at least I'm better than that guy. lol.. if only it was true. I've lost way more than that.. and don't see it stopping for some reason. I just don't have the willpower to stop trying. I keep trying, and wanting to get better.. but it doesn't seem to happen.. I just keep losing.. maybe eventually I'll get bored. However, I can think of a lot worse things I've spent money on. At least this occupies my time.

The key to this forum is to soak in all of the information and learn all the different aspects and approaches to the game. I have been a member for quite some time, but I have gone on breaks from the poker and the site. While at cardschat, I typically play and focus better at the tables. When I have a bad play, I usually go onto the site and find ways to avoid the future reoccurrence of the same play. This site is a huge tool and it depends on how use it. Yes, people are on here lying about their poker winnings and accomplishments, but that is irrelevant. There is so much information on this site that can turn you into a winning poker player.

General advice to help in reversing losing trends (consider the source for God's sake). Go to lower stakes or even free rolls if need be. Take some time off. Figure out one bad aspect of your game and practice correcting it (inexpensively) until you see a small improvement in your results. This is a very brief summary of some of the things that I have learned here at cardschat, less someone misconstrue my purpous here.

I enjoyed your post Sly. Good points. I actually think that hand analysis is an excellent way to improve one's game. It surprises me a bit (only a bit because you seldom "get" my tone - I blame myself), that you thought that I didn't. If I were to rephrase your summary of my thoughts (what are you a mind reader?) I would say: "There is no way to completely capture the context of another players hand," and leave it at that. What people choose to do about it, talk about it, replay it, ignore it or whatever is entirely their business. You wouldn't be trying to "bully" people into believing that to become a better poker player, one must subscribe to the slycbnew method, would you?

slycbnew said:

Regardless, the upshot of your suggestion is that you think hand analysis is a waste of time, because there is no way to capture context effectively?

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If someone gives bad advice in response to a question, there will always be several posters who disagree and who will offer their own opinion. Usually there will be a few excellent posts which will be very instructive. You can soak up a lot of good avice here in the Cardschat forum. :congrats: :hello:

Yo may be right. But sometimes those "new players" ask their own questions in the thread, trying to get their doubts cleared or trying to compare their own knowledge with others.

It's a learning experience, there's a lot of good options to see whether the guy who posted is leading you on the right/wrong way.