Camera Tables question.

I got to wondering what benefit a player has at a camera table (any table that has cameras beneath the surface to see the hole cards).

And really, IMO, the only player advantage seems to be a long term one. A player may be able to view his table responses (reads/tells) by watching his own reaction to his deal.

Does anyone know for a fact, that a player must slide his cards over the camera, or make the card values available for posterity?

I read the terms and conditions for a satellite I was in to a WPT type event. Part of it was the agreement that by playing in the sat you were agreeing that if you qualified and were at either the featured or final table you agreed to show your hole cards to the camera.

don't know, that's a good question.

Irexes said:

I read the terms and conditions for a satellite I was in to a WPT type event. Part of it was the agreement that by playing in the sat you were agreeing that if you qualified and were at either the featured or final table you agreed to show your hole cards to the camera.

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Thanks, was that a live sat?

Also, is there any quid pro quo? Seems that if I were playing, and copped an attitude, I could easily get upset about getting nothing for showing my cards. Not that I would, but I can see the dark side of the force acting up on me.

Seems the players should get something for this, and not an insignificant something either. At bare minimum, I would think they would get a copy of all the video of the tables they played at ASAP. Certainly not during play, but at the end of the day, especially important in a multiday event.

Nope something online, may even have been one of the OFC tournies.

If there's an issue with the holecards, then the issue of image rights, interviews etc comes up (the T&Cs also said that you had to be available for interviews at reasonable times) as they could be construed to be a similar thing.

Not saying it's not a potential issue, but I presume in all cases it would agreed beforehand and so the option not to play is there.

Thinking about this a bit more, it seems joining the SAG might be a good idea before any big event.

I believe the SAG (Screen Actors Guild) could demand payment for any image of you for any 'for profit' telecast.

It seems the poker telecasts are way to good for ESPN, FSN, TRAVEL CHANNEL, etc. They get a cast of thousands, often with star power, at little or no cost.

Poker Players Unite !!! It's time to Unionize!

I would think the tourney you enter could say that you signed the T&C and you had the right to not enter the tourney if you did not agree with their T&C. By entering the tourney you would agree to being on TV and having your hole cards viewed. If you did not want to be on TV, or have your cards viewed don't enter.

Several name pros have made similar arguments to dj's regarding the T&Cs. See here.

i think that you could def. benefit from seeing your hole cards in live play later own to tweak your game.....but on the other side others will see later also making note of the way you play.....i have heard and saw pros watch this to get a one up on others.....

Well look at Kravchenko, he wasn't showing his cards (probably on accident, but still) and they never said anything to him about it. As far as I know at least.

KingCurtis said:

i think that you could def. benefit from seeing your hole cards in live play later own to tweak your game.....but on the other side others will see later also making note of the way you play.....i have heard and saw pros watch this to get a one up on others.....

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You don't need hole card cameras to analyse your play later on though. Gus Hansen spends entire tournaments talking into his voice recorder - marry that up with video from a non-holecam table (or even just your memory) and you can achieve the same end.

Anywho, I'd view them as a necessary evil. Yes, they give away information to others on how you play when they watch the footage back later. But if you're a decent player, you should be able to mix up your strategies effectively enough to offset this.

Also, I'd figure it's the price you pay for drawing more people to the game. I wasn't into poker before holecams, but I'm told the TV footage was a wee bit dull. If holecard cameras have contributed to making the game more popular, and therefore increased prize pools, I'd probably figure it was a decent tradeoff.

I don't think the WPT antitrust suit had anything to do with holecams though - isn't it about the WPT using the players' names and images for promotion without compensating them, and blocking other televised tournaments from being hosted in casinos that hold WPT events?

OzExorcist said:

I don't think the WPT antitrust suit had anything to do with holecams though - isn't it about the WPT using the players' names and images for promotion without compensating them, and blocking other televised tournaments from being hosted in casinos that hold WPT events?

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No, it doesn't have anything to do w hole-cams, but the issue was kind of raised here:

dj11 said:

Thinking about this a bit more, it seems joining the SAG might be a good idea before any big event.

I believe the SAG (Screen Actors Guild) could demand payment for any image of you for any 'for profit' telecast.

It seems the poker telecasts are way to good for ESPN, FSN, TRAVEL CHANNEL, etc. They get a cast of thousands, often with star power, at little or no cost.

Poker Players Unite !!! It's time to Unionize!

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...so I figured that would be a good time to hijack the tread .

Ah - makes sense now