Dealer Mucks All In Hand At WSOP

TrentsMomm · Oct 31, 2009

Oppsie! The second thing she did wrong was tell everyone what she had before the hand was over, I think?

smallteene · Oct 31, 2009

She did take it pretty well, but still that sucks. Pocket Aces though....man....I wouldn't have been 50x more pissed.

I guess protect those cards when next to a dealer. He probably didn't even HEAR her all in. Totally his fault, but what are you gonna do?

Dam Yankee · Nov 1, 2009

Right Oz - there was no cam at her table. But again - this is the wsop - and they are to a point where the field is small & the money large - since they televise it - I think they should have had cam's at all the tables! When they do go to a table that's not the featured table, it's like watching poker on tv back in the day! Not many watched it back then, cuz ya know, it just wasn't that fun to not know the hands that were being played. Ditto for their "wild card hand" - screw it - I want to know what they are playing & how they are playing it!
Maybe it will be a lesson for the WSOP to have holecard cams once they get down to 27 playeers/3 tables when it's serious money at that point.
It would obviously benifit the players like this girl from stupid human error mistakes - and it would be much better for those of us who watch it on tv.

brackdog · Nov 1, 2009

That's hard.

I learned about card protection in a similar situation. Near the bubble in a 100+ person live tourney. In a threeway hand, I raised all-in from middle position with pocket Ks. A woman across the table in the BB was visibly pissed off at my raise and folded by spinning her cards at the dealer. She threw them so hard that one of them slid partially under my two cards, which had a silver dollar sitting on top of them.

Dealer tried to kill my hand, despite the fact that you could clearly tell which card was the rogue. Floor was called; I told him my hand but couldn't remember the suits of my original cards. Fortunately, the story had a happy ending; the card that went into my hand was another K! If not for that lucky circumstance, I think he would have killed my hand.

BD

woods61 · Nov 1, 2009

the next time she NAILS her cards to the felt ..I would prob fold

CAMurray · Nov 1, 2009

I feel for her but there is a good reason everybody uses some sort of protector.

YouTube - WSOP 2009 - AA preflop in to the muck (dead hand)

trewtrew · Nov 1, 2009

a real injustice here. u have to protect ur hand but to what extent? loads of players dont have cards protecters and they don't sit there with their hands protecting their cards. They check there cards then set them down next to there chips and play the hand. The dealer should be paying attention, a player announces allin, moves there chips into a pot so what makes the dealer thinks that she is folding. When a player folds, they never wait for the dealer to take there cards, they throw them into the muck themselves (the dealer might pull them in further if they dont reach the muck). This only happened because of the dealers lack of concentration. If she was in seat 2-8 this would never have happened only because she was close to the dealer.

Not sure if she had Aces though......lol

wachinpntdry · Nov 1, 2009

even crazier than this.....other night I watched a few mins of wsop and saw Phil Ivey muck a flush at the river...
sure seemed like he didn't realize he'd made a flush and thought all he had was a small pair

Tom1559 · Nov 1, 2009

Okay it is the players responsibility but why did the dealer muck them withut checking with her. He was obviously not sure you could see that from the way he hesitated. Partial blame on both sides but can you imagine if it happened to you. I also agree that if it had been one of the big guys they would have stood their ground and probably got a different ruling.

fajackta · Nov 1, 2009

Thats is totally horrible, but sitting in the position she is on my first time to a poker room years ago i had the exact thing happen to me. Granted, i didnt have aces and i wasnt all in, but i called the blind and hand my hand mucked because i didnt have my hand covered. Tough luck but thats the way it works in that situation!

OzExorcist · Nov 1, 2009

LizzyJ said:
In an all-in situation, I usually turn over my hand and THEN push them to the dealer. It's a bad situation, but it's the right call.

Pretty sure there was still action to come from other players, which is the reason she got the remainder of her stack back and why her hand was still face down.

joemac696969 · Nov 1, 2009

That's a real bummer, the dealer should have never touched her cards its not like she tossed her cards to him. He reached over and took the cards you should protect your cards especially sitting next to the dealer. You learn from your mistake's and hopefully from others too! GL

Salacious · Nov 1, 2009

Yah, I hate sitting next to the dealer, either side is a pain. This has happened to me, although not with aces.
All I got to say is good for her, she didn't blow a gasket, which wouldn't have helped anyway, and handled the whole thing pretty well.

Grossberger · Nov 1, 2009

Ok this is a unfortunate situation, however here are the rules as stated in Robert's rules of Poker:

2. You must protect your own hand at all times. Your cards may be protected with your hands, a chip, or other object placed on top of them. If you fail to protect your hand, you will have no redress if it becomes fouled or the dealer accidentally kills it.

Also here is the rule about retrieveing the hand:

8.Cards thrown into the muck may be ruled dead. However, a hand that is clearly identifiable may be retrieved at management’s discretion if doing so is in the best interest of the game. We will make an extra effort to rule a hand retrievable if it was folded as a result of false information given to the player.

And in additon there are 2 seats at every table that should make it an absolute point of protecting your hand and those are the 2 seats on the dealers immediate right and immediate left. Those are the 2 positions that the dealer can snatch your cards before you realise they are gone if not protected. Other positions at the table the dealer would have to make effort to reach in order to grab the cards. IMO the TD making an effort to see if the top 2 cards were hers was very generous as they dont really have to do it. Oh and if you watch closely her cards were the 2 cards under the ones they looked at.

brad921 · Nov 3, 2009

Oh yes i saw this hand on wsop, was a terrible mistake from the dealer and the outcome of the woman losing her initial bet i dont beleive was the right outcome. Its a weird situation that ive never heard of happening before, and as the commentator said if that happened to phil helmuth all hell would of let lose. After i saw that hand i was somewhat rooting for the woman to go on and make the final table, that would've been a good underdog story. still Phil Ivey making it to the November 9 is a great outcome, its been a few years since weve seen a top top pro make the final table of the WSOP main event, you need to go back to when cunningham made it a few years ago, but that year Jamie Gold managed to win it, true amatuer story there i tell you.

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Dealer Mucks All In Hand At WSOP

TrentsMomm

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