From The Dealers Chair

marvinas · Feb 19, 2009

I doubt it would, as long as it is random. Of course, if there is a shuffle while hand is in progress, you might get another card, but odds remain the same - if there were, say, 15 outs, they will be there no matter what you do with the deck.

Kwolff · Feb 19, 2009

Well actually I think its how players play online. When you are putting in real chips etc., you think a bit more. Online you just hit the button are rushed more and so on. Some people just sit there and say ok Im calling without actually thinking about whats on the board etc.. Are there players like this at live games as well? Yes(drunks and crack heads calling a all in against the regular with pocket deuces and three paint on the board LOL, we all have seen them), but not as many so for that reason I expect the variance to be somewhat off. If you get my drift with this.

XSCREAMMANX · Feb 19, 2009

i bet it is alot different when all u do is observe the players the whole time .

nomasburros · Feb 19, 2009

Stu_Ungar said:
You are definately right here.

The problem I feel is that people dont know what to look out for.. and therefore ask about tells.

The problem is that one guy scratching his ear may be very different to the next guy doing the same thing.

Its more the overall picture.. tells are not learned behaviour rather the physical effects of excess adrenalin, perspiration, anxiety etc etc...

So its something that comes with experience of observing. I think people at live tables are over eager to put tells into practice. By being the dealer you are prevented from doing that and so would gain a good foundation.

Incidentally, I just thought of this, but I should imagine that many dealers become quite good at spotting the physical signs of whats going on and over time learn a great deal about their regulars.

How big a tell would it be to observe, not only the players, but the dealers reaction to their actions... especially if you were a new face and had no previous experience of the players.. but knew that they were regulars.. so knew that the dealer had experience of them.

EXCELLENT ??? and i am glad you brought it up..you should definatley watch the dealer..often times they have been there for a long time..esp if the game is solid..i mean full all the time..tips are great then....dont put em back in the game though lol....

Back to your question...i have used this to my advantage many times..usually the dealers around the different casinos know each other from tourneys and such...i like to go into a new game and sometimes only watch the dealer for the first 1/2 hour or so see who they know well...it doesnt take long until you find them making certain gesture towards players they know well...a little extra eye contact and such..

Case and point..I have a friend who also deals...in a diff casino...when i go play in his game... its almost like we are telepathically connected...I couldnt tell you how many times he has told me to turn over my hand at showdown and it goes something like this 2nd best hand has 2pr and rolls over quick "i got 2 pr"... he looks at me and says"show em your set of 7s" chuckling ..and thats exactly what i flip over...

So yeah ..imo ....watch the dealer as much if not more than the other players in certain situations...i am not saying this is a failproof method to a profit..but its another observation most ppl dont take the time to utilize..

nomasburros · Feb 19, 2009

marvinas said:
I doubt it would, as long as it is random. Of course, if there is a shuffle while hand is in progress, you might get another card, but odds remain the same - if there were, say, 15 outs, they will be there no matter what you do with the deck.

this article if i remeber right also stated that the mucked cards were also shuffled in...

nomasburros · Feb 19, 2009

Kwolff said:
Well actually I think its how players play online. When you are putting in real chips etc., you think a bit more. Online you just hit the button are rushed more and so on. Some people just sit there and say ok Im calling without actually thinking about whats on the board etc.. Are there players like this at live games as well? Yes(drunks and crack heads calling a all in against the regular with pocket deuces and three paint on the board LOL, we all have seen them), but not as many so for that reason I expect the variance to be somewhat off. If you get my drift with this.

ye i have seen these players..lol i call these ppl "more money than god "players...extremley wealthy business types that think its funny to jam the pot full just to see if they can get you to fold a good hand...i see it all the time...good thing im not in the game lol..

pfb8888 · Feb 19, 2009

wow you guys need a break from the computer if you cant read a post without paragraphs..lol

how can u deal 50 hands /hour live at a limit table? its not possible.

nomasburros · Feb 19, 2009

reason is posted above

LizzyJ · Feb 19, 2009

I played in live for a while back in Vegas in the good 'ol days. For me on-line is totally different. The action moves much quicker (obviously). But 'playing the person not the cards' is completely different. You only have betting patterns to go by and the speed by which someone bets, calls or raises. Live you have tells to work with. That took a long time to get used to.

I guess that's a reason why some pros do very well live and get eaten up on-line and vice-versa. Treat on-line as if you are learning all over again. The biggest mistake you can make is thinking you have an advantage because you were involved in the game for so many years.

Velutha · Feb 19, 2009

Long Post with Cliff Notes at Conclusion.

nomasburros said:
i read a lot here and have taken a ton of good advise from this forum...and i could really use some here.

In order to maximize your input consider taking our advice when it is offered to you, specifically when you ask for it. Nobody said anything rude to you. In order to offer advice on your posts we need to be able to consume them.

No I did not take time to read the op. It looked very muddling. This is what you then said to me when I said so (which as a dealer I must say you've picked up quite a tell on me that you can identify this without ever seen a hand played)

nomasburros said:
are you to the point in your game that you dont need advise..or maybe your pride wont let you accept any....

Oh sweet prideful irony! No, to answer your question. My pride did not prevent me from reading your post which was apparently full of advice for me.

You were then offered from another member:

white_lytning said:
Not to be a dick, but try using paragraphs next time.

It makes it easier to read. A lot of people probably looked at the format of the post and immediately click back on their browser, or did what I did and I didn't bother reading the first post.

...and again got defensive about a point that was becoming the consensus opinion

nomasburros said:
I didnt realize i was going to get an English Composition exam..geez

As a dealer I'm sure you have a ton of useful and unique insight that I look forward to reading in the future. We're all here to learn from each other and in order to do so we must maintain an open minded manor and be able to take constructive criticism.

Cliff Notes on my above post:

[x] Can't we all just get along
[x] We're here to help each other
[x] I look forward to hearing about your unique perspective in the future
[ ] I have too much pride to take advice
[x] Recognizes irony of this long post

nomasburros · Feb 19, 2009

Velutha said:
Long Post with Cliff Notes at Conclusion.

In order to maximize your input consider taking our advice when it is offered to you, specifically when you ask for it. Nobody said anything rude to you. In order to offer advice on your posts we need to be able to consume them.

No I did not take time to read the op. It looked very muddling. This is what you then said to me when I said so (which as a dealer I must say you've picked up quite a tell on me that you can identify this without ever seen a hand played)

Oh sweet prideful irony! No, to answer your question. My pride did not prevent me from reading your post which was apparently full of advice for me.

You were then offered from another member:

...and again got defensive about a point that was becoming the consensus opinion

As a dealer I'm sure you have a ton of useful and unique insight that I look forward to reading in the future. We're all here to learn from each other and in order to do so we must maintain an open minded manor and be able to take constructive criticism.

Cliff Notes on my above post:

[x] Can't we all just get along
[x] We're here to help each other
[x] I look forward to hearing about your unique perspective in the future
[ ] I have too much pride to take advice
[x] Recognizes irony of this long post

lol sometimes i dont think ill ever get it right but i am trying lol... no hard feelings

nomasburros · Feb 20, 2009

i would like to open this thread to ev1 to maybe ask me about anything they would like from a dealers perspective....

nomasburros · Apr 25, 2009

today my view from the chair has changed some...it has less to do with poker ...but a lot to do with reading ppl..and their faces..it is with much sorrow i have to realize what in facts i observed...

you see i had the unfortune of being a funeral last week..this family is basically like my own..25 years i have been best friends with their youngest brother...so i know most of them well...but i never saw this coming..

dad died on sunday last week...ev1 showed up in town on monday...and thats when the fun started...

dad was a wealthy man at one point in time and had lots to leave ev1...so they thought.

needless to say it was the most cutthroat thing i have ever seen..

is money and material objects the only thing thats matters in these situations??

What ever happened to coming together as a family ...and dealing with the bullchit later when the emotional stability has somewhat returned..???

it seemed to me like the succesfull members of the family wanted it all..and would stop at nothing to get it in the end...including an actual physical altercation amongst multiple family members...

i guess in conclusion i would just like to hear about any other situations like this..i mean the plot gets a lot thicker .. but i wouldnt feel good divulging all the details..

Tom1559 · Apr 25, 2009

Very interesting to read this and hear how the game is seen by the dealer. I am sure you learned an awful lot and I am sure you have also seen some crazy calls, bluffs etc.

nomasburros · Apr 25, 2009

Tom1559 said:
Very interesting to read this and hear how the game is seen by the dealer. I am sure you learned an awful lot and I am sure you have also seen some crazy calls, bluffs etc.

ty tom...i hope to be able to put together some more interesting topics..ive just been steamrolled by life...so ive had some writers block so to speak

nomasburros · May 19, 2009

ok so i played a home game recently and ran into one of my most feared players...mr push and pray.....

i hate these guys...they tend to get all my chips....and i was only playing top ten hands..

how do you protect your hand against a player who just doesnt give a hoot whatsoever???

and there is absolutley no getting a read on these players as they really dont care what kind of play they are making...

Sean Pilgrim · May 19, 2009

XSCREAMMANX said:
1) if their LAG open up your play against them
2) if their TAG only play premuim hands against them
3) if their Passive they mite suck out on you their more so a calling-statoin

Gotta Disagree with you here. I would play premium hands against a LAG player. I would open up my range of hands with a TAG player.

Reason being that Loose aggressive = (in most cases) any 2 cards can and will be played any Ax Kx Qx Jx or any suited connector. It's hard to get players off of hands like this, if they're playing K5 and you're playing AK and you both hit top pair the LAG will pay you off, especially in a limit game. In a no limit game a LAG player is more likely to bust out within 10 - 15 mins at a table.

And a Tight Aggressive player you know is sticking to premiums. It's a lot easier to get a Tight player off his hand.

A LAG player is looking for reasons to call
A TAG player is looking for reasons to fold

EvilEmperor · May 21, 2009

nomasburros said:
ok so i played a home game recently and ran into one of my most feared players...mr push and pray.....

i hate these guys...they tend to get all my chips....and i was only playing top ten hands..

how do you protect your hand against a player who just doesnt give a hoot whatsoever???

and there is absolutley no getting a read on these players as they really dont care what kind of play they are making...

Learn to play more than ten hands. I would rather watch TV than play top ten hands live. At least online you can 10-table and keep yourself occupied.

You want to know what kind of play they are making? They are pushing around a weak tight player. Sounds like you need a bit more gamble in your game.

jordanbillie · May 21, 2009

nomasburros said:
Case and point..I have a friend who also deals...in a diff casino...when i go play in his game... its almost like we are telepathically connected...I couldnt tell you how many times he has told me to turn over my hand at showdown and it goes something like this 2nd best hand has 2pr and rolls over quick "i got 2 pr"... he looks at me and says"show em your set of 7s" chuckling ..and thats exactly what i flip over.

That is so bad, if I was another player at that table I would get up and leave. The dealer is not supposed to say things like that. That is almost the same as there being 4 spades on board and the dealer saying, "Who's got the Ace of spades!?!" (Which I have heard dealers say in Canada sometimes)

nomasburros · May 25, 2009

jordanbillie said:
That is so bad, if I was another player at that table I would get up and leave. The dealer is not supposed to say things like that. That is almost the same as there being 4 spades on board and the dealer saying, "Who's got the Ace of spades!?!" (Which I have heard dealers say in Canada sometimes)

why is this bad????..it just two good friends that know eachothers poker skills well...obviously he had the right read..and if playing he damn sure would of known to fold his hand..

but to all the other players its really nothing new for them to have the dealer say things like that...we live in small towns out here in my country ev1 knows ev1 type thing..so the game tends to be overly friendly i guess..

jamesdenson · May 26, 2009

what casino do you deal at i would love to come play where the dealers can deal 50 hands a hour

nomasburros · May 26, 2009

like i said we shoot for it...doesnt always mean we get there.......lol

nomasburros · May 26, 2009

EvilEmperor said:
Learn to play more than ten hands. I would rather watch TV than play top ten hands live. At least online you can 10-table and keep yourself occupied.

You want to know what kind of play they are making? They are pushing around a weak tight player. Sounds like you need a bit more gamble in your game.

lol i think ill stick to playing premium hands..i feel better about losing when playing right ..than donking out and being scrutinized for bad play...and if you have sat at a table with me you would know i am far from weak..ill ram and jam just like anyone else...except i do it with premium hands.

nomasburros · Nov 6, 2009

boy am i frustrated lately...i just got bac from vegas.second run at some serious cash this year...did very well first go round.....and let me tell you ..it was poker hell...aces cracked by 10/6 os on the bubb ....dont know how the hell he called aipf 27500 with rag trash.....

been home for a day or so and played online..only to have the same crap happening over and over....poker is really getting the best of me mentally...

From The Dealers Chair

marvinas

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Kwolff

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XSCREAMMANX

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nomasburros

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nomasburros

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pfb8888

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nomasburros

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LizzyJ

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Velutha

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nomasburros

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Tom1559

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