Does anyone on here make their money solely on mtt's?

If so, how often can you expect to place ITM. I am a very good tournament player and I enjoy the thrill of tournaments much more than cash games and sng's.

Pros expect to cash 10% of the time.

TriggaLos said:

Pros expect to cash 10% of the time.

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ID be happy to cash 3% of the time..

I think pros cash closer to 15-20% of the time. Depends on average field size tho...I think you should aim for at least 10%...but if you really are a very good tourney player you should probably know this already...

TD

AlexA1986, what SNG field sizes have you test driven? I've been playing in the 90- & 180-peep SNGs & it's kinda like playing in a mini-MTT...pay out is generally to the top 10%.

TopDonk said:

I think pros cash closer to 15-20% of the time. Depends on average field size tho...I think you should aim for at least 10%...but if you really are a very good tourney player you should probably know this already...

TD

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^^^^^^^This^^^^^^

Daily Dollar is easy enough to cash 30 percent of the time at least if you play tight early with a few good payed off hands and know how to steal near bubble... cashing enough to make it worthwhile is a lot harder though.

I have gave up on sngs, and now play mtt. I am running about 13% cashes so far with a couple of decent cashes 1700 and 500. But I am not putting in the volume I should be playing. I think you would need to play at least 20+ mtt per session. with buy ins from 3- 50 depending on prize pools.
I prefer deep stack tournaments and try to play turbos as a smaller % of over all play.

Check out
1SickDisease he is a grind machine

You should be more concerned with how often you go deep rather than just cashing. I cash about 23% of the time. And I have a good ROI, but right now (especially the last few months) I'm not going deep often enough and it is bringing my ROI down. I'm still cashing about the same percentage but a lot of them are min cashes. I'm working on it. I know what the problem is. I've gotten too tight and I'm not aggressive enough early.

I myself do not play soley mtts for a living. I do make a living from poker but mostly rely on sit and goes I occasionally dabble in mtts but not often. I have a friend who also does poker for a living and he is solely reliant on mtts. He does not make his money by stable results over periods of time. often he will be $2000-$3000 down and then go and win $8000 he has shown a long term winning streak with a large collection of final tables in mtts with 1000+ players. The way you make mtts pay is to final table them. I have several long runs to my name in tourneys, but not enough to boast about.

placing a higher % then the payout isnt enough. eg if 10% get paid and you place 15% of the time its not enough to make money.

thats because you get less then twice your buyin for placing in a typical mtt. assuming u got exactly twice your buyin and staked 10$ every time.

after 100 mtts if your placing 15% of the time you would have lost $700, thats before rake is factored in.

if you came first in a large mtt your looking at 1000 times your buyin maybe higher. Basically the pay out is skewed towards the deeper stages and to make a living from mtts you have to be able to go deep in them, placing more often then the pay out structure % just isn't enough.

I make most of my money from MTTs.

So far in 2010, I have entered 53 tournaments (public tournaments that is, not including small CC buyin games) and have achieved 4 Final Tables and 7 other cashes, which equals 20% ITM.

That is a small sample, however. Over the full year, I would expect 15-17% ITM.

Luke has the right idea, though. It`s Final Table places that make real money, not the smaller cashes, so that is the more important goal. I would suggest 5-6% FTs as a target.

Ive see a lot of MTTers at the big stakes just play like 10 tourneys at a time, make the FT in one and win big like 20K which makes up for all the 50-200 dollar buyins and puts them way up... then play again like 3-5 days later...

search these guys:
frank1the1tank
doubledave22
foxypham

I rarely play anything other than MTT's. Looking back through my records I have cashed around 17% of the time. A lot of the gamesI play are private ranging from 15 to 150 players so my hit rate is probably artificailly high. I guess if I played public MTT's it would drop a bit.

The best MTT's are the ones who have the best FT%, not the best cash %. Elky cashes in only 13% of his MTT's, but his FT% is over 4%, and when he does FT he finishes top 3 over 40% of the time.

SNGShark said:

As far as how often pros or other skilled players expect to cash...

As for myself, I "expect" to cash in every MTT that I play but with the occasional outplay or bad beat that gets dealt you can't actually judge a percentage of when you will definitely cash.

All you can do is play your very best game, every time you sit at an
MTT and hope for the best.

If you want to talk percentages or ratios all I can say is that in MTT's
I usually cash in 8 / 10 games in a given month when I play regularly
but recently I haven't played in many MTT's so I have no ratio right now.

I did however, play in a tournament with 5,000 entrants, last week, and
cashed in 14th place but that's the only MTT I've played all month so I can't really give a straight answer.

Is there any particular reason you prefer MTT's over SNG's?

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You do not cash in 80% of MTT's you play in.

SNGShark said:

As far as how often pros or other skilled players expect to cash...

As for myself, I "expect" to cash in every MTT that I play but with the occasional outplay or bad beat that gets dealt you can't actually judge a percentage of when you will definitely cash.

All you can do is play your very best game, every time you sit at an
MTT and hope for the best.

If you want to talk percentages or ratios all I can say is that in MTT's
I usually cash in 8 / 10 games in a given month when I play regularly
but recently I haven't played in many MTT's so I have no ratio right now.

I did however, play in a tournament with 5,000 entrants, last week, and
cashed in 14th place but that's the only MTT I've played all month so I can't really give a straight answer.

Is there any particular reason you prefer MTT's over SNG's?

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level?

8/10 games are you on acid? maybe you ment you dont cash in 8/10 games... which is still pretty strong.

Egon Towst said:

I make most of my money from MTTs.

So far in 2010, I have entered 53 tournaments (public tournaments that is, not including small CC buyin games) and have achieved 4 Final Tables and 7 other cashes, which equals 20% ITM.

That is a small sample, however. Over the full year, I would expect 15-17% ITM.

Luke has the right idea, though. It`s Final Table places that make real money, not the smaller cashes, so that is the more important goal. I would suggest 5-6% FTs as a target.

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These look like good Numbers Egon

Wolfpack43ACC said:

The best MTT's are the ones who have the best FT%, not the best cash %. Elky cashes in only 13% of his MTT's, but his FT% is over 4%, and when he does FT he finishes top 3 over 40% of the time.

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This is definitely where the money is.

This post made me look at my numbers for 2009 and I just don't play enough games.
It seems work,wife and life gets in the way.
My numbers look good I just need to play more.
My results from Stars 2009

ITM 27/130 = 21%
ROI=84%
Final tables 8/27/130 = 6%

TopDonk said:

I think pros cash closer to 15-20% of the time. Depends on average field size tho...I think you should aim for at least 10%...but if you really are a very good tourney player you should probably know this already...

TD

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This ^ is actually WRONG.

TriggaLos's post, >>> 10% itm is correct. Try running the names of the Top100 on the MTT Leaderboard and you'll see the avg. itm is ~10-11% (that's guys like da_professional, Doc Sands, govshark, MoormanI, etc. etc.). Players with excess of $800k in winnings just on Fulltilt alone.

In 'LOWER' buyin MTTs you can expect to see more players with an itm of 15%.

ITM isn't really too important. It's your ROI that is more of a concern (in the long run).
It's normal for MTT players to go many games with zero cashes (or just some small cashes along the way). It can be a tough haul but once you hit a decent payout, it'll all feel worth it (til' the next long dry run, lol)

i think its a combinations of 15% with a decent roi

Final tabling MTTS are extremely hard.. you gotta win your flips and your big hands gotta hold up.. add in skillful blind stealing and extremely good shortstack play. If I were any good at Cash games I would quit tournies!

I am currently, but I haven't tested other ways enough. Made my first online deposit at Full Tilt on the 1st for about $25. Started building my bankroll slowly grinding ring games (the 4 simultaneously method), but then I won a $97 first prize in a 180-player MTT. Haven't looked back since. 24 days later, my bankroll sits at $412.44, so I don't see myself stopping as long as it's so profitable. Of course, I play a few sit-and-gos here and there as well. At the moment, I've got a 15% ITM with an AFS of 1250. Of course, I only just started learning real poker strategy at the beginning of this month.