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Message: [QUOTE="Michael Paler, post: 2120637, member: 96446"] [b]Funny you should say that....[/b] I think Phil felt bad after clearly slow rolling a fish; putting a play on a weak player is something he should know better than to do. However, if you look at the guys hand, his was actually in a better position than Phil! For those of you who do not know what we are jabbering about, here it is: PH/Phil Hellmuth, LC/Loose cannon; First, Phil 3-bet OOP with a weak ace. Not horrible, if you don't get trapped in some way. I think he knew (correct read!) that Tony G is raising with garbage. However, with a LC and two good players left to act, it was a horrible 3 bet. Sure enough, Loose Cannon (LC) picks up KsKc. HE FAILS to 4-bet! Big mistake, as it gave everyone else great pot odds to flat call PH's 3bet. Mistakes: PH 1.0 LC 1.0 Then, Phil commits a cardinal sin...he fancy talks (semi slo rolls) someone who [I]could not possibly understand the dynamics[/I]. After the LC bets out, PH continues to talk to the guy (Why? You know you got the nuts!! Why Phil, why?????) Phil smiles, then goes all in. The LC insta calls. Maybe he just did not think PH would 3-bet with an A-9? Maybe he just could not lay those kings down. But It should have seemed fishy. If he had trips, what would he do? 1: Check the flop. 2: Wait for fish to bet. 3: Shove. I just don't think the guy saw it coming. Phil tried to take advantage of the fish, correctly, just got screwed in the process. Oh, Phil, why? Mistakes: PH 2.0 (I count the slow roll as a mistake, because I think getting called out on it by the others made him feel bad. This would lead to a BIG MISTAKE!) LC 2.0 (Failed to see the trap) Then (maybe he thought he could out math the guy, who knows? Probably guilt) he asks if he wants to run it 3 times, then 4!! The board has 9h-10s-9s. This gives Phil 6 outs to a full (with another 10 or an ace). However, the LC has some outs as well. He has both a backdoor straight, a backdoor flush, and 2 kings. (Phil Laak joins the bash PH bandwagon). LC gladly accepts the 4 times PH then offers him. Now, here is where it get interesting. Since PH already had the guy SOOOOO dominated, he did not need to improve over his trips! So, improving to a better hand was just not needed. So, technically, [I]he really has -0- outs![/I] PH has already made [I]the[/I] best hand. This means the LC has all the outs. If PH gets his ace, but the guy spikes a K, no go for PH. He should not have offered to run it 4 times based on this alone. The first run, this is just what happens. Phil hits his ace on the river, for an unnecessary full house. Then, it gets ugly. Nothing that the LC can possibly improve to can be beaten by trips. PH gets math-screwed. Second run: Sure enough, LC gets his King. Now, PH is drawing dead. LC continues to show his fish-ness by saying "Oh, damn, I said 4 times, or I would have just got 1/2 my money back! That's ok Phil, you got outs (?!?) Third run: Sure enough, LC gets runner runner flush cards. PH is drawing almost dead again. Now it's two wins to one. PH looks like he could barf. Fourth run: LC gets one Q (now his outs over trips zooms), and then of all things, the fourth and final K!!! PH throws up in his mouth, who could blame him? LC wins 3 out of four, almost doubling up, PH goes ballistic. Tony G berates PH (kind of the kettle calling the pot black, frankly). So, by running it 4 times, PH should have at least split the pot (that 4th K was a one outer), still; with the strength of the guys hand, PH allowed it to be run 4 times with a hand vulnerable to many a backdoor out. Had he just ran it twice! Mistakes: PH 3.0 - Preflop 3 bet w weak ace into a fish and 3 pros/Putting a fancy play on an weak player/guilted into (Or greedy thinking) running it 4 times LC 3.0 - Preflop flat call a 3-bet w KK [I]on the button no less[/I]/C-betting and getting pot committed on a paired board into a possible wayyyy better hand, in this case obvious trips/running it 4 times, essentially the same as running it twice. Actually, he should have only got 1/4 pot with that one! I'm sure that is what PH was thinking. It looked to me like the blind leading the blind. PH should have known better. I felt bad for him nonetheless. They really bashed him. Tony G should talk..... Thanks for bringing this up S3mper, it's a good learning example!!! [/QUOTE]

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