Doing the right thing

Dobbler1 · May 21, 2022

I don't always know what the optimal decision in a hand is, but if I look at my biggest losses, they fall into 3 categories:

Making the right decision and getting unlucky (getting all in with AA and having them cracked)
Making the right decision and running into a bigger hand (loosing a big pot with a set to a higher set).
Making the clearly wrong decision.

3 is the one I want to talk about. Far too often I find myself saying to myself "Well that was dumb" the moment after I make a call on a big bet with a marginal hand (or a total garbage hand). The problem isn't knowledge about the difference between what decision is the right one, it's getting myself to actually use the knowledge. It's not really tilt either. It's not as a reaction to a prior hand.

I have identified one situation that puts me in danger. If I am playing against someone, and strongly suspect that they are playing garbage aggressively, I sometimes try to push them off their hand with worse garbage, and end up loosing big pots against A high with Q high. The fact that they'll call huge bets with garbage should be an advantage for me, but I make it into a liability. Since I've recognized specific tendency, I've managed to control it, but it doesn't come close to covering the times I make obviously bad decisions.

I can't be the only person who experiences this. How have you managed this?

mina271 · May 21, 2022

It happens to everyone that you misjudge your opponent or, like me, when I was new to poker, I was too curious and just called everything preflop. I really wanted to see the flop and although it was often clear to me that I should fold the hand preflop, I firmly believed in my luck and ran from one misery to the next. Although there were of course days where I was really lucky. While luck is also part of the game, there's more to poker than that, you have to pay close attention to each hand you play and sometimes just fold.

Cooking · May 21, 2022

I agree with you about the 3 categories. And this situation of play bad hands against a super aggressive player already happened to me too. I also realize that sometimes I make bad decisions in KO tournaments when I play a hand that I shouldn't because I was chasing a bounty of a short stack player. When I see one of these 2 situation is happening, I try to count to 10 to calm down and make the right decision.

whitetailbuck10 · May 21, 2022

Well to some degree you have this problem beat. You KNOW and acknowledge the problem. That is a huge step I think and the fact that you are asking for help is another great step. I wish I had the answers you needed, but I don't.

I am still learning some of my weaknesses and reading some of these posts like this helps me out. So Thank You for the help.

KRANKES · May 21, 2022

Maybe you try some pot control in these specific situations. If the pot is not THAT big, it might be easier for you to fold on a later stage, when you see your attempt didn't go through.

nutself · May 21, 2022

Sometimes what I think is an obvious mistake is actually just hindsight. In the heat of the battle, there are many factors that affect the decision, and these factors will usually be ignored in the future review. To solve this issue, you need deeper understanding of your own thoughts at the moments of making the bad decisions.

sincos · May 22, 2022

Making the right decisions is great! In poker, the player who makes the fewest mistakes wins.

afecho · May 22, 2022

You’re descriptions make so much sense and are very accurate for me too!!

What I’ve been doing more lately is checking with myself about just my cards (not my opponent who might be getting to me with the situation you described) and deciding if I am ok losing with this hand? If I am, then I play but if that self check in makes me realize I should walk away before having to say to myself “that was stupid” then I know I’m playing the game the way I want to play it. If I can lose and say “that’s ok” then I know I’m happy with myself for the decision I made to play.

pavel1111111 · May 22, 2022

Well, I notice that you kind of answered yourself to the problems that you have

... try to treat poker as a game where you can relax, because that's it ... a game and a way to relax

Dobbler1 · May 22, 2022

afecho said:
You’re descriptions make so much sense and are very accurate for me too!!

What I’ve been doing more lately is checking with myself about just my cards (not my opponent who might be getting to me with the situation you described) and deciding if I am ok losing with this hand? If I am, then I play but if that self check in makes me realize I should walk away before having to say to myself “that was stupid” then I know I’m playing the game the way I want to play it. If I can lose and say “that’s ok” then I know I’m happy with myself for the decision I made to play.

Yeah, it's never great calling off my stack, but if it's with a set of 3s on an uncoordinated board, I'll probably make that call 99 times and feel good about it, even if I'm going to get beat by a higher set occasionally. Not so happy calling down a busted A high draw with a busted Q high draw.

I really like this. I'm going to try asking myself "regardless of the outcome, how will I feel about my play if I call/fold/raise/bet after the hand is done?" I've noticed I do say to myself, say if I've got the nut flush on a paired board, "If they've got a boat and I loose this hand to that, so be it I made the right play".

Tigroslav · May 22, 2022

Dobbler1 said:
Yeah, it's never great calling off my stack, but if it's with a set of 3s on an uncoordinated board, I'll probably make that call 99 times and feel good about it, even if I'm going to get beat by a higher set occasionally. Not so happy calling down a busted A high draw with a busted Q high draw.

I really like this. I'm going to try asking myself "regardless of the outcome, how will I feel about my play if I call/fold/raise/bet after the hand is done?" I've noticed I do say to myself, say if I've got the nut flush on a paired board, "If they've got a boat and I loose this hand to that, so be it I made the right play".

So true the Rick Bennet quote!

I too have problems with 3. mostly when I am not playing my A game
usualy when tired or emotional after some bad luck.

I try to take a few deep breaths and remind my self that fish like that rarely ever fold
and its best not to try making them.

black and · May 22, 2022

If you clearly understand the patterns that lead to certain consequences, then you can easily control the whole decision-making process. Personally, I never play with junk. I am always patient, in general I have quite good results and positive dynamics in the growth of my bankroll.

Dobbler1 · May 22, 2022

black and said:
If you clearly understand the patterns that lead to certain consequences, then you can easily control the whole decision-making process. Personally, I never play with junk. I am always patient, in general I have quite good results and positive dynamics in the growth of my bankroll.

I appreciate your response, and am happy for you that you're having good results, but it isn't the case for me that "If you clearly understand the patterns that lead to certain consequences, then you can easily control the whole decision-making process." I get how this makes sense in theory, but it feels like saying "If you understand that smoking is bad for you, then you can easily quit." Sounds good on paper, but not so easy for some people. That's exactly what I'm talking about - doing things that I know are bad decisions.

DiegoRamos · May 24, 2022

Dobbler1 said:
I don't always know what the optimal decision in a hand is, but if I look at my biggest losses, they fall into 3 categories:

Making the right decision and getting unlucky (getting all in with AA and having them cracked)

Making the right decision and running into a bigger hand (loosing a big pot with a set to a higher set).

Making the clearly wrong decision.

3 is the one I want to talk about. Far too often I find myself saying to myself "Well that was dumb" the moment after I make a call on a big bet with a marginal hand (or a total garbage hand). The problem isn't knowledge about the difference between what decision is the right one, it's getting myself to actually use the knowledge. It's not really tilt either. It's not as a reaction to a prior hand.

I have identified one situation that puts me in danger. If I am playing against someone, and strongly suspect that they are playing garbage aggressively, I sometimes try to push them off their hand with worse garbage, and end up loosing big pots against A high with Q high. The fact that they'll call huge bets with garbage should be an advantage for me, but I make it into a liability. Since I've recognized specific tendency, I've managed to control it, but it doesn't come close to covering the times I make obviously bad decisions.

I can't be the only person who experiences this. How have you managed this?

Think like this:

You already know what harms you, so think about the solution to evolve.

Go for me, you've done the hardest.

Rost · May 24, 2022

In poker, as in our lives, it is impossible to do without mistakes. You can't always make the right decisions. Mistakes are an integral part of playing poker and the main thing in my opinion is to learn to draw appropriate conclusions and learn from mistakes.

jordanbillie · May 24, 2022

Dobbler1 said:
I don't always know what the optimal decision in a hand is, but if I look at my biggest losses, they fall into 3 categories:

Making the right decision and getting unlucky (getting all in with AA and having them cracked)

Making the right decision and running into a bigger hand (loosing a big pot with a set to a higher set).

Making the clearly wrong decision.

3 is the one I want to talk about. Far too often I find myself saying to myself "Well that was dumb" the moment after I make a call on a big bet with a marginal hand (or a total garbage hand). The problem isn't knowledge about the difference between what decision is the right one, it's getting myself to actually use the knowledge. It's not really tilt either. It's not as a reaction to a prior hand.

I have identified one situation that puts me in danger. If I am playing against someone, and strongly suspect that they are playing garbage aggressively, I sometimes try to push them off their hand with worse garbage, and end up loosing big pots against A high with Q high. The fact that they'll call huge bets with garbage should be an advantage for me, but I make it into a liability. Since I've recognized specific tendency, I've managed to control it, but it doesn't come close to covering the times I make obviously bad decisions.

I can't be the only person who experiences this. How have you managed this?

If you are an MTT player, you can limit the amount of times you are risking chips in a potential "#3 scenario (not knowing if you are good or not)" and save them for a future "#1 Scenario."

So, you play less 50/50 marginal spots (just give them away, it's fine!) and play more 60/40, 70/30 and 80/20 spots.

This sounds too simple to be true but if you think about it, it's possible and it improves your MTT results.

rastapapolos · Jun 1, 2022

Dobbler1 said:
Making the right decision and getting unlucky (getting all in with AA and having them cracked)

Making the right decision and running into a bigger hand (loosing a big pot with a set to a higher set).

Making the clearly wrong decision.

Well for the first point, you can't do much it's the variance of the game but statistically speaking if you count all the times that you shoved with AA and villain had garbage you're winning it's +EV.

The second point when you have a set your opponent will not have a set as often, but they still have equity (around 10%). Here you have to consider your play pre-flop, had someone 3-bets you, had you good odds to call..etc. Post-flop you have to consider the board texture, if you have a set on a Kxx or Axx board, most of the time villain will have TPTK. On some wet boards you can play your set carefully, trying to pot control and value thin.

The third point, everytime you make a wrong decision villain will make money and vice versa. Consider lowering your VPIP trying to play hands that will give you easy decision post-flop. Play the fish only when you have a hand, and you can do some hero calls on some boards when there's a missed flush or straight and you have something.

Hopefuly I had bring some answers. GL

Fushicho · Jun 2, 2022

I think I lose most chips in the following two situations:
1. Getting it in with better then 50% chance of winning and still losing.
2. Folding with the best hand.

Of course everyone makes mistakes, but I make mistakes in lots and lots of different ways and listing them all would take far too long. All the bad decisions might had up to more than the to options above.

Doing the right thing

Dobbler1

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mina271

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Cooking

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whitetailbuck10

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KRANKES

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nutself

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sincos

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afecho

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pavel1111111

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Dobbler1

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Tigroslav

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black and

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Dobbler1

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DiegoRamos

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Rost

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jordanbillie

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rastapapolos

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Fushicho

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