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Message: [QUOTE="detroitjunkie, post: 3173439, member: 61462"] Ok live players, here's one for you There is a rule that exists in many nation rule sets (Roberts, TDA, WSOP) regarding pre-exposed flops, turns, and rivers early - this post focuses on the turn card because no other situation can result in the conflict that is now growing in this rule. first the rule: If the dealer accidentally flips over the turn card early, meaning before all action from the flop has finished, then the following must happen: 1. Set pre-exposed turn card aside. Allow action from the flop to finish. 2. Burn the next card (which is the pre-river burn) and flip up the river card, which now takes place of the turn. 3. Allow action to play out. 4. After action ends, place pre-exposed turn card back into the deck, shuffle and cut, then flip the 'new' river card (without burning another card since you already burned 3) action then leads to showdown and hand is complete. this rule is almost universal, however a few rooms are now enacting the follow procedure, some have even argued with me at our rooms that we should do it this way: do everything the same EXCEPT instead of flipping the river card up and have it be new turn card, leave it face down on the board, then shuffle the pre-exposed turn card back into the deck, shuffle, and flip up a new turn card...allow betting to continue, when finished take the original river card and turn it face up on the board and let betting lead to showdown. Now what both of these procedures have in common is that they try to keep the hand intact as it was originally supposed to be from the beginning. However there are two distinct differences 1. Original rule protects the hand integrity to a degree, BUT also protects the game from cheats (see below) 2. New rule keeps the hand integrity as close as humanly possible, but violates a rule that is the essence of dealing, and the biggest protector against cheats I still like the original rule and think it should never go away. 1. The most common and most destructive way that someone can cheat live is to mark cards. It happens more and more each year because of technology that allows this to happen. The BIGGEST tool dealers have to combat this is the burn card. The burn card hides any marks from the players that may be on the next card to hit the board. And as we will all agree, knowing a card that will hit the board is WAY more advantageous than knowing a card that will hit the muck. Leaving this 'real' river card on the board with its back exposed allows the card marker to know what the river will be - exponentially huge advantage! 2. A lot of players like to muck hands by throwing them wildly around the dealer area, what if in a multi-way pot one player mucks by throwing at the board and they get mixed in with the 'real' face-down river card - NOW WHAT? I do not think that trying to keep the true river card as the river is worth giving up these two protections of the game...but I want to know what you all think, maybe I am wrong [/QUOTE]

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