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Message: [QUOTE="stuventus, post: 980707, member: 27110"] But if i am going to get called 4 ways pre flop holding Ace Ten, whats the point? i am up against 4 players who will not fold if they have the nuts or air or a draw. I have found it much more profitable to wait for the nuts or near nuts then to let them call till their hearts content. The way i liken it is to this. Deal a hand you suggest i raise with. In this conversation ace ten. and then 4 other hands (with real cards on a desk) any hands. then deal some flops and see which way the chips go in the long run. I understand that not all players will call with air and draws all the time. But there is much less variance this way and less variance, personally, allows me to play a with a clearer head. [/QUOTE]