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Message: [QUOTE="glworden, post: 898818, member: 35332"] That's not what this is about. That's the way Cowboy's framing it: two different opinions, both valid. You stick to yours and I'll stick to mine. But that's not at all the case in regards to this scenario. There is demonstrably a right and a wrong here. Cowboy has every right to stick with the wrong opinion, but it's NOT just two sides jawing at each other. Cowboy seems like a decent guy, but he doesn't listen to reason and he's stuck in his ways. He might be a damned good player for all I know. The danger here is for a newbie to come along, see the argument and think there are equally valid points on both sides. If you believe in proper hand analysis, that is just not true. I totally understand Cowboy's point and concede that it's fantastic if you stumble in to the dream scenario. But there's a clearly predictable possibility of that happening, and it does not measure up to the pot odds in this situation. A creative player such as Cowboy - or perhaps even me on occasion - might do it anyway, but we're handicapped by our early position, especially if we DO somewhat hit the flop. The large pot pretty much justifies taking many draws and if we don't hit - which we usually don't, it would be easy to burn our entire stack on the VERY FIRST HAND. That's if it even gets that far. What if Cowboy calls $300 in the small blind, then the Big Blind goes all in. A couple more call. Great pot odds there. Are we going to call the all-in and put our whole tourney on the fate of a first-hand all-in donkfest. I invite discussion. Somebody please tell me how this makes sense. But the much more likely result is that Cowboy throws in his $300, misses the flop and folds to a post-flop raise, thereby starting his tourney up to 20% behind. Who wants to consistently play in such a way that you put yourself in this position? I'm just about blue in the face. I give up on Cowboy, and the rest of you seem to have a good understanding of the situation, so I suppose it's just silly for me to even be making these comments. There is seldom such a clearcut situation where the right and the wrong are so obviously discernible, yet somebody chooses to see it as a disagreement between two equivalently valued opinions. It is most definitely not that. Gary [/QUOTE]

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