Is it really possible online ?

What is the difference between a professional poker player and a pizza?
The pizza can feed a family.

There are a lot of Pros who multi-table ring games all day every day and just break even to maintain their bankroll.

But because of the volume, the rake back cheque provides an income.
That is the most common way. No heroics or major wins. Just consistent hard graft which then negates the unknown variables you mention.

thats an honest response im after chemist

so yes it can be done but as you say, unless u have the volume + rake back, its more likely a no.

kmixer said:

I have a question for those that do not think donks hurt the game. If you have two donks at your table do you have a better chance of winning than if you have say 6 donks at your table. How many times have we discussed that AA is great against one or two players but the suckouts are way more likely when 5 people stay in the hand.

It's way off topic here but something worth discussing in another thread I think.,

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It's not way off topic at all. OP specifically mentions all the donks. Personally, I'm a live player. That's where I learned the game (thank god), and that's where I've spent the most hours.
When I play live, I win with AA about 80 to 90 percent of the time. Online I win about 40 to 60 percent. Is it because I play AA differently online? No. The more players in a hand against AA, the more likely it is to be cracked, and so it goes with KK, QQ etc. In the last year, playing hundreds of hours of live, I've seen aces cracked by 22, 33, 44 less than a dozen times, if that. Online, it's a daily occurrence. Why?
When I play live 2-3 NL, and everyone at the table generally has about 200 or 300 hundred, people respect a 5x BB raise preflop; and if they don't, they learn to. If there's a big raise on the flop or turn, people generally fold their junk. They do not push an all in button, hoping to catch on the river.
People say donks are good. Sure, but not multiple donks ready to push all in, all the time. Horrible donks like I encounter online, do not survive in a live environment, they either get better, or get tired of losing $100 buy ins.
One or two donks on a table, get taken out. A table full of donks, will take you out. It's not even poker anymore, it becomes a slot machine.

It's possible, but very difficult. You really have to be quite good and disciplined. Just peruse OPR a bit, winning players don't start showing up until the top 95% or something. That's 19 losers for every winner...so odds are improvements must be made to your game before you get into that skill level.

That being said, volume is the only real remedy for variance. So...get good and play lotz, that will maximize your chances of turning a consistent profit on this game.

edit: Usually, you're seeing your big hands cracked online more frequently than live because you see 2-5x more hands online than you do live. That and players in a live game really seem to care about their image. I've noticed that they're less likely to make big moves with crazy stuff than online. But just run some equity calculation, those online spews are worth a lot of +EV and long-term will probably be more profitable than the fish you play live.

Mainly it's about adjustment between live/online. Live players fold too much/"respect raises"? Then run more bluffs and tighten up your value-betting range. Online players call any-size bet with 2 blanks? Then stop bluffing and value bet wider and more thinly. That TP-no kicker is suddenly quite strong if your opponent will readily call you down with A-high or bottom pair.

The two are both beatable for a nice profit, but you can't play the same way to get the job done.

Possiible? Yes.

Possible if you think too many "donks" make it impossible? No.

Of course it's possible. But too many people think they can do it, when the reality is there are many many times more losing players than winning players, and the majority of players are nowhere near as good as they think they are. So unless and until players are willing to put in the time and effort to actually study, plug their own leaks, and improve their game, those players will never be profitable. Players who just sit down online for the first time and think they're as good or better than everyone else at the table are in for a rude awakening. And I don't care how long you've been playing live -- it's an entirely different game.

CoddBrunson said:

When I play live, I win with AA about 80 to 90 percent of the time. Online I win about 40 to 60 percent. Is it because I play AA differently online?

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Sorry, but I'm calling BS. Firstly, how have you accurately tracked AA in your live games -- do you make a note every time, have photographic memory, or what? Likewise, when you play online, how do you track those hands? I get the feeling you aren't using HEM/PT3, or you would know better (assuming you've played a decent volume online).

This is a popular and common misconception from beginning online players, whether totally new to poker or coming from live games, but it's consistently been proven to be false. And yet it never dies. Also, this sort of statement is common from those aforementioned players thinking they're better than they really are. Which are also usually those who think "too many fish" are bad for the game.

Play enough hands online to get a meaningful sample size (say, 20k hands at least), then run your HEM/PT3 reports on your AA hands. I will guarantee you, without any doubt whatsoever, that your AA holds up 80+% of the time. I've done this repeatedly on my own HEM database to dispute those making such claims, as I've seen many other players with decent sample sizes do. Last time I checked, out of several hundred AA hands, mine held at like 82% IIRC.

We're not talking out of 10 times though. We're talking about hundreds and thousands of times. Which is the "long term" that players need to be focusing on, not the results-oriented view from the few hundred total hands that many obsess over. Statistics don't lie, even though many like to think the sites, the RNGs, the donks, and the poker gods are all conspiring against them. Anything to point the finger away from themselves.

BTW, I run into far more fish live than I do online at most sites. The major sites like Stars and Tilt have become more and more reg infested. I would *love* to sit at a FR table with 8 fish. It would make for a boring game, mind you, as I'd be folding, limping, and calling down a ton more than I normally would, but that would be offset by the profits.

It is possible ! Your bankroll has to be large enough and you have to put in the hands, the hours, the work...
If you pick the right game and don´t tilt, you have a very good chance to make good poker money for a living !

i would have to say having a large starting BR is the key. playing higher stakes to avoid the donks who chase to the river is also important. i have one friend who claims to make 6figures a year playing online holdem.

WVHillbilly said:

Possiible? Yes.

Possible if you think too many "donks" make it impossible? No.

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Exactly my point. Not aimed at anyone in particular, but if you can't beat the "donks" what makes you think you'll be able to beat a table full of mostly decent regs and 1 or 2 donks who you AND ALL THE OTHER REGS will be gunning for? Doesn't make sense.

WVHillbilly said:

Possiible? Yes.

Possible if you think too many "donks" make it impossible? No.

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Thank you. If I here one more person complain about bad players I think my head is going to explode. In every other field of competition we recognize that the better our opponent the harder it is to win. When people play poker for some reason the thinking seems to be: " I can't beat a table of bad players. I know, I'll move up stakes and take on solid regs. That will be easy money."

If you can't beat the donks, its not their fault its yours.

I don't think this is something everyone is cut out for. I think it's also very difficult for you to figure out (i.e. giving up time from how you normally make money to try it out..). I play a lot of real table games at real casinos.. and I find that the online games calm me down a bit because I've seen many more hands than I'll ever see playing at one physical table.. when you see pocket AA, or KK, or AK.. you don't get lost in the excitement.. and I think that mixing the two helps you understand the overall strategy better..

all depends how much money you need for life i you have family i think poker is not good way to go