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Message: [QUOTE="feitr, post: 1041949, member: 34106"] Oh dear, you guys absolutely miss the point of the hand. BW shoves because he thinks villain is bluff raising him on the river because 44 and 22 or 56 or A5 are the only hands that really make sense for villain to have, and since BW's line is very often a bluff, BW figures villain knows this and might be bluff raising. Tho tbh, 88 NEVER turns itself into a bluff there on the river and frankly that is a snap call (initial bet) with 66/77/88 etc by villain on the river so i really really really hate the river shove. Even 33 isn't going to bluff raise here. Not to mention that villain's line is really polarized towards the nuts (and this is a standard line for the nuts on this board) or air, and there are just so few air hands that villain would turn into a bluff on the river (like 67 and nothing else). [/QUOTE]