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Message: [QUOTE="SavagePenguin, post: 1051970, member: 22087"] I'm just trying to bust them out. In those situations there's typically one big chip leader (me), a couple people who can fold to the money, and three short stacks who are just trying to outlast the other short stacks. By now only the nits are left, and they get nittier. I steal the $75/$150 blinds over and over again by putting in just $350. $100/$200 blinds get stolen for $450. I'll stop stealing if they fight back, but people rarely fight back. It's *really* nitty on the bubble, and I accumulate a lot of chips. Once I am pretty sure that I can fold my way to the money if I lose an all-in to the 2nd place dude (leaving me with $3,500 or so chips) I'll start shoving. It's -EV for the two people with decent stacks to call me, even if they have A/A, because the chances of them folding to the money are greater than their chances of their A/A holding to a random hand. I mean, I expect them to call with K/K and A/A, and maaaybe Q/Q. That leaves me with the short stacks, who don't affect me much if they call. My shoves tend to take the blinds and antes at a rate *greater* than I lose when they call and double up. I'm fine with a shorty calling my shove when I'm only ~40%. I'll be the hero when it's cheap. And if it starts hurting my stack I'll stop. I can totally see how it'd be -EV to keep shoving because doubling up the guy in 2nd puts me in 2nd, but even then it would take a really cold run to not cash. At that point I'd just nit it up because the shorties will each have to double up few times each before I start to feel any pressure, and that's not likely to happen. I'm also *not* letting people get more chips by stealing from each other. Again, I usually accumulate chips by shoving because everyone is trying to outlast each other. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if my shoves encourage them to play tighter because they're figure someone else will call the maniac and possibly get sucked out on. Zach is definitely right about it being -EV if one of the people with $3k in chips is willing to call with with a wider range than they should. The wider their range, the worse my EV (and theirs). I could be way off in my thinking. But because of the narrowness of people's ranges at that point, if it is -EV it's not by much. And believe me, if I sensed danger I'd stop. And with me opening (bluff or not) I am about pot committed to call any shorty who decides to shove anyway. So really it's just the "should fold every hand" people who I have to worry about. [B]Edit:[/B] You need to win ~55% of these tournaments to stay in the green (less for turbos), so stacking early in a tournament with A/Ks and Q/Q is usually a bad idea unless your villains range is pretty wide. Those coin flip hands for big stacks are -EV. I'm pretty tight at first, until I lean a little bit about the players. I don't like playing for big pots without reads early on. [/QUOTE]

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