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Message: [QUOTE="OzExorcist, post: 2299771, member: 23910"] I agree, it was impossibly stupid of villain to muck his hand if he had two pair here. Doesn't change the facts though. Lying about your hand before showdown is absolutely fine, obviously. But once the hand has gone to showdown, it's a very different matter. The relevant rules from Robert's Rules are actually this one, [URL="http://www.homepokertourney.com/roberts-rules-of-poker.htm#DEAD_HANDS"]Dead Hand rule # 2[/URL] (emphasis added by me): [INDENT]2. Cards thrown into the muck may be ruled dead. However, a hand that is clearly identifiable may be retrieved and ruled live at management’s discretion if doing so is in the best interest of the game. [B]An extra effort should be made to rule a hand retrievable if it was folded as a result of incorrect information given to the player.[/B][/INDENT] ...and this one, [URL="http://www.homepokertourney.com/roberts-rules-of-poker.htm#THE_SHOWDOWN"]Showdown rule # 2[/URL] (again, emphasis added by me): [INDENT]2. Cards speak (cards read for themselves). The dealer assists in reading hands, but players are responsible for holding onto their cards until the winner is declared. [B]Although verbal declarations as to the contents of a hand are not binding, deliberately miscalling a hand with the intent of causing another player to discard a winning hand is unethical and may result in forfeiture of the pot.[/B] (For more information on miscalling a hand see “Section 11 - Lowball,” Rule 15 and Rule 16.)[/INDENT] I'm seriously disturbed if the poker room in question doesn't have these rules or the equivalent on their books, BTW. But the point is, villain folded his hand after Grossberger deliberately miscalled his hand and gave the villain incorrect information. FWIW if the cards couldn't be retrieved and verified by either the dealer or the floor then you've only got one player's word against another, and I can't argue with the decision they made - they have to award the pot to the last player that had cards. We're not in that situation though, because we've got information that the floor didn't have: Grossberger has told us what he was holding. [/QUOTE]

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