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Message: [QUOTE="OzExorcist, post: 2300347, member: 23910"] LOL - for sure, from time to time circumstances dictate that you need to do stuff like that :D I'm just saying it's poor form to make a habit of it and be holding the game up [i]every[/i] time you call someone who was obviously bluffing on the river. *le sigh* The only chance villain has of getting his hand retrieved from the muck is if he was given incorrect information by Grossberger. And the only chance that hand has of [i]winning[/i] the pot once retrieved is if it is indeed two pair, otherwise he made a false declaration. So... your argument that villain was angle shooting and Grossberger wasn't makes no sense. He can only win the pot if the opposite is true. We don't know for sure what villain had, so there's absolutely no way we can "know for sure" that villain was angle shooting. I actually think it's unlikely, and here's why: Go back and read the whole exchange again - if it's being reported accurately, villain declared his hand then asked a yes or no question ("I have two pair, can you beat that") and got an answer that wasn't no*. It's clear that he took what Grossberger said to [i]mean[/i] "I can beat two pair". Maybe he heard wrong, maybe he didn't think about what else the answer could have meant, but if that's what he took Grossberger's statement to mean, then I can see why he'd muck two pair (particularly something like bottom two pair). In his mind he's just been told it's no good. Was mucking his hand based on that verbal statement alone the smart thing to do? Hell no. But put yourself in villain's shoes for a moment: you've made a huge bet on the river, you've been called, you say you have two pair and you ask your opponent if he can beat that. Your opponent says he possibly can beat two pair. Does [b]anything[/b] in that scenario lead you to reasonably believe that your opponent has one pair or less? [SIZE="1"]* "no" [b]is[/b] the only truthful answer anyone holding one pair can give to that question BTW - any other answer is misleading or an evasion at best[/SIZE] [/QUOTE]

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