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Message: [QUOTE="zachvac, post: 1108911, member: 26306"] ok so it's kinda been beaten to death that you should bet this flop. I'm not sure but if you have 22 in this spot on that flop with 2 opponents are you cbetting or not? This is a flop I'd lean towards no because you get almost no folds. For that exact reason you have to bet when you flop top set. But I want to go over something else. Note what happens here. If villain jams are you going to fold here? The flush draw just got here as did AQ or Q9. So by checking the flop you gave him a free card to his draw, and now you're going to stack off when he hits it. That's a humongous leak right there. You're just giving massive implied odds on this as when he misses all you get is maybe a turn or river bet but when he hits his hand he gets your entire stack. And you just really need to look beyond "omg don't want to scare him off I have a monster". Against a draw you want them to fold if the options are free card or fold. If it's a made hand they're more likely to call on a drawy board before the draw hits, and basically every single hand is more likely to call a flop bet than a turn bet. No one sees a check and thinks "omg I can stack my middle pair now". But plenty of people call off 2-3 streets if you bet/bet/bet and draws miss. You say you check because you dont' think he has anything, what hands exactly are going to put in more money later? Are you hoping they have a PP and hit one of their 2 outs to catch up to be 2nd best? Like seriously even if they don't have much what the hell does checking do other than make it less likely that they'll call later and more likely that you're not ahead anymore on scary turns and rivers? The problem isn't really that you fail to extract value in hands like these, the problem is when he has a hand like AQ or 2 hearts here and you lose your stack whereas checking doesn't make it any more likely you'll get a call later. And again, if they fold a lot here, you'd better be betting 100% of your whiffed cards in this spot. But of course that would be bad because they don't fold that much here. /rant [/QUOTE]

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