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[QUOTE="dmorris68, post: 2264459, member: 40397"]
I both agree and disagree with you, Nathan.  :)

The part bolded is the math that Owen and I are mostly talking about.  I'm not a GTO geek either -- I think it's interesting from the academic/math side, but not terribly practical.  But I think Owen nails it when he says that old-school pros "feel" the basic math that you mention above:  when they're priced in, what their equity in the hand is, how many outs they have to improve, etc.  That's still math, they're just not thinking about it in terms of crunching numbers.  It's more like memorization and recall, kinda like learning your multiplication tables, or learning how to leave a tip without a calculator (which I find surprising that some people still struggle with).

I don't think a Bill Chen understanding of math is necessary to be successful at poker either.  But the basics as Owen lays out in his book are, IMO, essential to the game.  And I highly recommend his book for those who are averse to math, as he presents it in an easy to digest form and focuses on just the practical math that's really necessary.  With practice it will become second-nature.
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