Mucked Card Rule Leads to Heated Debate

This just happened $1/$2 table at Foxwoods. An under the gun player in Seat 1 with about $500 behind raises to $15 and is 3 bet to $50 by the button a fishy older guy with about $300 who seems to know the dealer and everyone on the floor. The OR calls.

($100) Flop is Qxx. UTG Checks and the button bets $90. UTG doest think too long and shoves all-in. For some reason while the button is thinking the dealer mucks the all-in players unprotected csrds and as he's protesting the older player OTB calls.

The floor is called over and rules that the all-in player (who claimes to have had QQ for a flopped set) cannot win the hand and must call the $90. The button however (who showed KK) complains that because he called the All-in (but only as a freeroll) he should win the other $200 he had behind too. Really? Considering how lucky he was to have won the pot at all this struck me as extreamely poor sportsmanship.

What are your thoughts? Did the floor get it right or did the button have a right to the entire stack regardless of whether or not its fair?

The floor had it right, and for the dirt bag button he should have gave the guy his 90 back as the dealer saved his ass.

Yeah, this is a pretty terrible mistake by the dealer and I know you should always protect your hand(as I always do)but that doesn't excuse a dealer not paying attention to their job. The floor did get it right though.

It didn't end there. He continued to argue his point with the floor for at least 15 minutes taking it to the floors supervisor. He actually believed that he was both technically and morally right and saw absolutely nothing wrong with pushing for the entire stack. I was surprised to see how many of the older regs vouched for his character. "great guy!" they said. "Give you the shirt off his back."
Somehow I doubt it.

I take it the floor couldn't identify UTG's cards in the muck?

Omg! This dude was a jerk

bad move by the guy, dealer should be reprimanded and guy must protect cards better to avoid this situation next time.

Maybe the dealer was a rookie. Or possibly a partner in the game....

I saw a YouTube video of the same thing happening at the wsop to a female player. The dealer grabbed her unprotected cards, and she ended up losing the money in the pot to that point (she claimed she had pocket KKs). I felt bad for her, as did most of the players at the table, but when a dealer makes a mistake like that, the players suffer. At the WSOP, they should have electronic sensors in all the tables, not just the TV table.

I don't play live much, when I do it's a $65 dollar tournament. Saw it happen at the table I was on. got the same ruling from floor person. If I'm in I always protect my cards.

SPANKYSN said:

At the WSOP, they should have electronic sensors in all the tables, not just the TV table.

Click to expand...

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by that - do you mean hole card cameras at every table so they could potentially go back and review the footage?

If so (or if it's some other kind of mechanical/electronic solution you've got in mind) it's a massively expensive overkill of a solution to a problem that's pretty rare (and often solvable by conventional means) when it comes down to it.

It is a rare occurrence, but I can't help feeling bad for the innocent victims of dealer error. Millions of dollars are at stake. I remember being a tennis Linesman in the 70s. Thousands of dollars and championships were at stake based on my and other linesmen's eyesight...not fair to the players. One bad call and it costs you the tournament...they now have Hawkeyes on almost all the courts in major tournaments. Yes, I think they should go through the expense of having hole card cameras or sensors on all tables at the big tournaments.

Have to say I hate all the new Hawkeye type technology.
Much more fun when when it's just down to the referee.