Must risk's be taken to reach the top?

CrockPot · Feb 21, 2014

I've heard it said a few times that in order to get to the top levels of poker one must take risk with his bankroll. Is this true or false? IMO it is somewhat true, to succeed in general we all must take risk through out life. But how true is this in poker?

LastSon76 · Feb 21, 2014

Since poker is a game of imperfect information, of COURSE there's going to be an element of risk involved. Some of that can be countered by skill and practice but between variance and a good player's use of randomized play (appropriately) you'll never completely avoid risk in being successful in poker.

CrockPot · Feb 22, 2014

LastSon76 said:
Since poker is a game of imperfect information, of COURSE there's going to be an element of risk involved. Some of that can be countered by skill and practice but between variance and a good player's use of randomized play (appropriately) you'll never completely avoid risk in being successful in poker.

Right but what I'm asking is if I want to make it to the big leagues do I have to sometimes play under bankrolled, sitting at tables on occasion and risking it all for that big payday. Or is it possible to grind your way to the top always playing within your limits.

Mr Sandbag · Feb 22, 2014

CrockPot said:
Right but what I'm asking is if I want to make it to the big leagues do I have to sometimes play under bankrolled, sitting at tables on occasion and risking it all for that big payday. Or is it possible to grind your way to the top always playing within your limits.

It is definitely possible to grind your way to higher stakes while always playing within your bankroll limits. But a lot of poker players have taken shots at the next level without having the right bankroll for it. The key is to be disciplined enough to move back down if it doesn't work out right away.

Shot-taking isn't really a risk to your bankroll since it is usually a one time thing if the results aren't great. If you do it, lose, and stay at that level anyway, your bankroll's risk of ruin is great.

dealio96 · Feb 22, 2014

CrockPot said:
I've heard it said a few times that in order to get to the top levels of poker one must take risk with his bankroll.

I've never heard of this being a profitable move(statistically) in the long run. People take shots, and people actually bink tourneys in these situations, but I would never advise this to anyone that is actually trying to get to"the top" I mean, there is stake jumping, but in no way, shape or form, does that have to do with taking a risk with your whole BR in one session. Variance is way too crazy online(no matter what your level of skill is) to be taking shots of this caliber.

This of course if you mean Whole bankroll when you say "take a risk with his bankroll"

cotta777 · Feb 22, 2014

Althought I would agree in live poker taking big risks can really pay off I mean you could be talking a lot of cash your hand in a short space of time.
You could out down 2k and walk away with 10k if your brave enough buy in then a higher live game for 5k you could walk out with 12k
and your talking around 14-16 grand in a matter if days.

then its a case of being smart with that money investing time to progress and develop and bankroll smart

I certainly wouldnt feel comfortable playing for large sums of cash online with the intention if building up I think bad beats would be more likely for sure especially if your out if your depth it just seems to be the way it goes

jj20002 · Feb 22, 2014

first hand you hold kings and one opponent shoves, do you pay?

against several villains and the board displays 4 spades and you have the king of spades, one villain shoves, call or fold?

everybody folds and the small blind shoves and your cards are pocket eight, in or out?

4 players enter a pot raising you hold pair of sevens and to see the flop need to pay a third of your stack, are you going for the set?

i mean, there are a lot of situationn that are going to be coin flips, and maybe you are going to take the risk or not and sometimes you take it and win and go deep and bust your br, or you are in a downswing and feel nothing is working

at the end is a balance (including your bankroll, because you can not afford to fall to zero and then start over again)

hashtag · Feb 22, 2014

I'm not sure anyone on here can answer this based on experience? We are all learners here I think. This would be a good question to ask in a CardsChat interview with a pro, e.g. Phil Galfond most recently. Keep an eye out for the next one.

steffdbird · Feb 22, 2014

reply

CrockPot said:
I've heard it said a few times that in order to get to the top levels of poker one must take risk with his bankroll. Is this true or false? IMO it is somewhat true, to succeed in general we all must take risk through out life. But how true is this in poker?

I think this is something only you can decide. I mean for you to sit back and think long and hard about the pro's and cons for example

1. What exactly do I wish to achieve ??

2. If I decide to take these risks and it goes wrong can I afford to restart??

3. Which higher limits should I attempt?? Without making yourself feel intimidated by the reg's who will spot you instantly and put you in tough spots as was mentioned above.

4. When or if I make these decisions, do I continue at these levels or do
I go back down and practice good brm.

I think the main two are 1 and 2,
what do you wish to achieve ?
And how damaging would losing you Br be to your finances?

I hope this has helped and gl

Swickster007 · Feb 23, 2014

Poker always has risks. Every time you bet without having ''the nuts'' is basically risking the fact that the other player may have them. It is rare that you will have the highest high showing and every time you play, you are betting that the other players do not have it as well. With that being said, there is always risk taken, whether it be just game of poker, in bluffing, or with risking your money. You don't always need the cards, but the cards help.

asu322 · Feb 24, 2014

I believe that reaching a high level you have to play in moderation, but sometimes you have to and you risk .... after all if you do not risk no win ..

suby_rafael · Feb 24, 2014

Bankroll Management

Ask any poker professional in the world. Most of them would agree with me if i say that "BANKROLL MANAGEMENT" is the most and foremost important thing while playing poker be it cash games / tournaments. Where did you hear such a thing of taking risks with bankroll to reach the top ? Whoever said it is not very wise in my mind. So if i were to give you an answer straight up it would be "FALSE".

If you take risks with your bankroll don't expect to be a successfull player in the long run.

CrockPot · Feb 24, 2014

suby_rafael said:
Ask any poker professional in the world. Most of them would agree with me if i say that "BANKROLL MANAGEMENT" is the most and foremost important thing while playing poker be it cash games / tournaments. Where did you hear such a thing of taking risks with bankroll to reach the top ? Whoever said it is not very wise in my mind. So if i were to give you an answer straight up it would be "FALSE".

If you take risks with your bankroll don't expect to be a successfull player in the long run.

Alright, that's kind of what I was thinking also. As for where I heard it, well I know I heard it once on PAD but I'm not real sure who said it though I may be wrong but I believe it was Brandon Adams. I've also heard Daniel Negreanu talk about some crazy BR risk he took. But I agree with you on this one.

Himanshu · Feb 24, 2014

i guess if you want to advance you got to take the risk.

KoRnholio · Feb 25, 2014

There is a certain amount of "risk" needed to help a player push themselves enough to improve their game. There are plenty of pros/semi-pros at the mid stakes level (100NL - 400NL online) who can play a relatively low risk game and grind out profits.

For a player to break through that level, it will take a lot of effort, discipline, and yes, risk, to try their hand at the higher limits.

The most important thing after taking a risk/taking a shot at a higher limit, is being able to recognize when to move back down limits. Second most important is being able to use that experience and improve one's game to the point where after some more shots, they can win consistently at the higher limit.

GWU73 · Feb 26, 2014

There are 3 times I think risking an entire roll is worth it.
1. When your roll is so small that playing with good BRM would be meaningless.
2. When you can easily replace the roll through other means.
3. When you have stacked the deck.

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Must risk's be taken to reach the top?

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