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Message: [QUOTE="Dorugremon, post: 2965723, member: 94033"] This is just wrong on so many levels. "Furthermore, its a game where players continually put all their money in preflop when they only have 2 cards which only represents 28% of their total hand. This truly is the definition of crapshoot poker". Yes, it is true that you have a lot less information than you do at 7-Stud, where you have three cards, and can see all the door cards. However, every player has the same info: their two cards, and what counts is what you do with the information you have. That doesn't make it a crap shoot by any means. A lot of rec-fish like that ATC can win at Hold 'Em, but the question is: will [I]my[/I] two cards win often enough to justify playing them? Knowing this moves the situation far from a crap shoot. The players who mistakenly think it's a crap shoot are the game's biggest fish. As for "crap shoot" games, Omaha comes closer since the preflop equities run a lot closer at Omaha. At Hold 'Em the best hand you can hold (AA) is a clear favourite. The best Omaha hand (AAKK-ds) isn't so far ahead. "And their are numerous examples of big name poker players, who became famous and wealthy, by putting their whole stack in a pot as a 90% or more underdog, and getting lucky to win. A perfect example is Moneymaker in the WSOP main event he won". The luck factor is enormous in any tournament format. The blinds are periodically increasing while the stacks aren't. This eventually leads to everyone's playing a short stack, and you'll blind out if you wait for the nuts. Everyone else has the same problem, and you have to adjust to how they're playing. That means taking chances you won't take in a cash game. As for Moneymaker's play, he called with pocket 6's because he thought he was ahead of the villain's range, and he just happened to catch the very top of that range. He would have folded if he believed otherwise. As for the suckout, that was indeed lucky, but that's tournament poker ferya. "NL hold em is really a crapshoot game when compared to other forms of poker that are limit/ pot limit . I was actually dissapointed when TV was able to transform the poker landscape and make NL hold em the big game of choice in the casinos and home games". This actually reverses the logic. Fixed limit is more of a crap shoot type of game. You are frequently chasing with the worst hand because you're getting odds. Since the bet sizes are fixed, there isn't Thing One the holder of the lead hand can do about it. He just has to keep betting, hoping to either get some (incorrect) folds, or that his hand holds up. The best fixed limit player will frequently be playing his hand just like the fishiest player would play the same hand in the same situation. The only difference between the two is that the good player plays like a fish when he's getting odds; the fishiest player plays like that all the time. In NLHE, you can always bet large enough to make any worse hands chase with a -EV. If they get there and cost you a stack, oh well, SUX to be you. That doesn't change the fact that they weren't getting the odds and made a very bad call. Let them keep playing like that, and you'll get their money. Maybe not today, but eventually you will. "I was actually dissapointed when TV was able to transform the poker landscape and make NL hold em the big game of choice in the casinos and home games". It is what it is, and there are fads in Poker as there are in everything else. Yes, there was once a time when there wasn't hardly any Hold 'Em at all (they called the Golden Nugget in downtown Vegas the "House of Hold 'Em" for a reason) and what was there was fixed limit except for side games at the WSOP. You have to adjust to your vills, play what they want to play whether that be fixed limit, pot limit, or no limit, 7-Stud or Hold 'Em, or Draw or Lowball, or whatever. I OTOH, was [I]DEEEEELIGHTED[/I] when TV made NLHE the "main game". It was like giving an otter free run of a salmon cannery. I made the transition from FLHE to NLHE to take advantage as opposed to playing FLHE with the same old nits who couldn't adjust. (And let's not forget the larcenous rakes at the lowest limits.) Rather than whine about something you can't change, why not do something about it? Get your NL play in order, exercise some tilt control, instead of wishing everything would go back to what it was like 25 years ago? [/QUOTE]

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