pocket aa's before the flop

Pascal LeFiscal said:

Why does it matter that we aren't closing out the action? I'm getting it in regardless. There could be 8 all ins in front of me and I'd still call without ICM considerations at a final.

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Not sure if you're serious, but isn't it foolish to risk all your chips when you're likely less than 20% favored to win the pot? Sure, you're more likely than anyone else to win, but you're still a huge underdog if 9 of you are all in. Or is AA too strong to fold, even if it means your expected payout is severely reduced?

How about another example. You have just 1 chip and are dealt AA. Three people are all in in front of you. You can call and perhaps get to 4 chips, or you can fold and perhaps outlast 1 or 2 of the others. Not much of a decision if you ask me.

ckingriches said:

Not sure if you're serious, but isn't it foolish to risk all your chips when you're likely less than 20% favored to win the pot? Sure, you're more likely than anyone else to win, but you're still a huge underdog if 9 of you are all in. Or is AA too strong to fold, even if it means your expected payout is severely reduced?

How about another example. You have just 1 chip and are dealt AA. Three people are all in in front of you. You can call and perhaps get to 4 chips, or you can fold and perhaps outlast 1 or 2 of the others. Not much of a decision if you ask me.

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i dont think you understand the concept of equity

vanquish said:

i dont think you understand the concept of equity

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Sure I do, and I stand by my post. Maybe I should have clarified that I was talking about a tourney, NOT a cash game.

i'm too hung over to explain



someone else do it

Let's pretend we're looking at the second hand of a 9 person SNG. $10+1 buyin, with first, second, and third paying $45, $27, and $18, respectively.

Let's assume you're in the BB, having just folded the previous hand after limping, so you're now the only one with less than your starting stack. Everyone before you goes all in. You have AA.

If you fold you are virtually assured of $27 (assuming no split pot), and your tournament equity is $29.

If you call and are lucky enough to be facing 8 random hands, you are 34% likely to win the hand and the $45 (once you win any last remaining chips). Either way the tournament is over, and your expected payout is .34 x $45 = $15.30.

Sounds like an easy fold, doesn't it?

let's pretend we're playing a tournament where 10 players play and 9 people win $100000000000 and 10th place dies


everyone moves all in and u have AA, seems like an easy fold




however for the sake of this discussion its worthless to talk about situations that never happen, and you shouldn't be folding AA preflop ever, unless you're playing some gay satellite/double or nothing donkament


pretty sure OP does not have the brain capacity for n'th level discussion, not sure why i ever opened this thread in the first place

^^^Wow, Arent you full of yourself???

Well put vanquish, totally agree with what you're saying!

vanquish said:

let's pretend we're playing a tournament where 10 players play and 9 people win $100000000000 and 10th place dies

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DIES??Man, I gotta read the tourney rules better...

ckingriches said:

Let's pretend we're looking at the second hand of a 9 person SNG. $10+1 buyin, with first, second, and third paying $45, $27, and $18, respectively.

Let's assume you're in the BB, having just folded the previous hand after limping, so you're now the only one with less than your starting stack. Everyone before you goes all in. You have AA.

If you fold you are virtually assured of $27 (assuming no split pot), and your tournament equity is $29.

If you call and are lucky enough to be facing 8 random hands, you are 34% likely to win the hand and the $45 (once you win any last remaining chips). Either way the tournament is over, and your expected payout is .34 x $45 = $15.30.

Sounds like an easy fold, doesn't it?

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As I said, not taking ICM into consideration (i.e. on any table but the final table in an MTT really)

ckingriches said:

Not sure if you're serious, but isn't it foolish to risk all your chips when you're likely less than 20% favored to win the pot? Sure, you're more likely than anyone else to win, but you're still a huge underdog if 9 of you are all in. Or is AA too strong to fold, even if it means your expected payout is severely reduced?

How about another example. You have just 1 chip and are dealt AA. Three people are all in in front of you. You can call and perhaps get to 4 chips, or you can fold and perhaps outlast 1 or 2 of the others. Not much of a decision if you ask me.

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Outlasting people when there are 1000 people left is pointless as going past 8 makes no difference. Or maybe 80 left even - in the money but not going to go up more than one pay jump.

Say you are calling 1 chip to win 10 and you win 20% of the time...

I've done it twice and both times I'd have lost...the first time was a legit fold decision, the 2nd time was stupid and moronic but it was correct nonetheless...first time I was nearing the money in a tourney and player in 2nd position raised about 5XBB...there were 2 callers following him, it gets to me in the cutoff and I have Aces...I look at the stacks of the 2 callers (both of which are maybe 10-15 XBB at best and at the point where they should be shoving and not calling raises) and am almost sure that if I shove my short stack the initial raiser is going all-in and that at least one is going to call if not both and I may be going 4 way to the flop with Aces...I fold...the flop comes Q-7-5...initial raiser checks, turn is a blank, he then bets...fold...fold...initial raiser shows QQ...thank goodness...the other 2 players did not want to say what they had but it ultimately did not matter since I'd have lost to the QQ barring a miracle Ace on the river which we never saw.

2nd case is bizarre and was in a 1-2NL cash game...I limped with AA in 1st position with the intention of raising any raise...it looked like a busted trap til it reached the young lady in the BB who raised to 12$...at this point I'm licking my chops since I know she's got at least JJ and more likely KK or QQ...I raise to 35$...guy in mid-position thinks for about 2 minutes and calls...back to the initial BB and she goes all in for 220$....at this point I sit back and my initial plan is to think for awhile in order to get the other player to call hoping he maybe has 10s or JJ....the more I think something keeps telling me not to play the hand...after about 2 minutes I muck it...other guy calls instantly ( he had 90$ left)...flips over J-10 suited...woman has KK...flop is J-10-8...he outflops her and of course would have outflopped me too...turn is a 9...River a Q and she goes runner runner for the straight...nobody believed me whe I told them I folded AA on a total gut feeling...nevertheless, stupidest best fold I've ever made.

I have seen peeps go out a lot on AA so if late in tourney and near the money might be different but I definitely dont thing I could fold these they are best hand starting right?

midgetfactory said:

Folding AA pre flop is a no no for me, unless i misclick!!!

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and, I misclick a lot! :banghead:

Ive folded them before with three all ins infront of me when I was covered and I need one of the players in the ruckus to go out so I could qualify for a tournament up central. My reasoning at the time was if anyone of them caught a set or whatever then I would lose no matter what. Lo and behold one of them did catch a set. These were early days though. I qualified too.
I think most of my bad habits come from this events stuck on the brain.

I have folded pocket aces pre-flop once... that was only because I was low stack and sitting on the bubble and was in an early position. Otherwise, I dont fold pre-flop.

evildoesit2003 said:

I have seen peeps go out a lot on AA so if late in tourney and near the money might be different but I definitely dont thing I could fold these they are best hand starting right?

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When suited, yes, they are the best.

essambb said:

in tournement if the final table is on the line i would fold the AA so prevent some thing sick from happing becouse AA do lose in the other hand you may want to chip it becouse if you lose with AA then it wasnt ment to be in the final table any way

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Oh ok, cool!! I knew I was doin' something wrong. I mean it seems like I just get unlucky when I gets the real big hands & right at the most crucial times. I gonna try this fold AA stuff out cuz for sure I'm not wanna get unlucky anymore (or maybe not as much as I always do sometimes). Or maybe I should 'chip it'? Well, I probably only gonna do this if I gots 'a feeling' it was like meant to be.... like when you just know you're gonna win. But next time if I got that sick feeling I'm gonna lose with my AA then I'm gonna fold so I can hang in there & win the tourney.
tks man. Gonna try this out next time I get near final table (if that ever happens)

Oh yah, I'm also always folding AA if I have 1chip but if I have like 3chips I'm getting it in there.