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Message: [QUOTE="ironduke11, post: 5029491, member: 216262"] so I used to run a little pub game, great times and a great teacher about human nature.... the games were three or four tables and lasted about three to four hours to play down...started with 100 bigs and an add on at the break two players come to mind when thinking of skill v luck then a few others also inform the argument the first player I think was the most complete poker player in the pub she was adventurous, play any two, play the player not the cards, bluff strongly and would more than often chip way up and have 10 to 1 or 20 to 1 lead by the break ...this phase id say is mostly luck as she was also often out by the break...when she did hit a vein of form however she would accumulate chips like a magnet this phase I think is dependent on luck as it reflect who you are playing and the outcomes of some of the critical hands after the break she would fall to pieces because she couldn't change gears....she was always stuck in the bully mode or the bluff mode so when other players who were looking to win tightened their range or started to play back strongly she would spew her chips away. she actually got angry at me when I suggested changing her play, never give advise to anyone who didn't ask for it especially a woman I realise what that tells me is that there are clearly defined phases to a tournament even turbos and it takes someone with a strategic mind to adapt...the longer the tournament goes on the more important the pots the more it is a skill game skill the second player was also a widely polarizing player who would either chip up fast or exit fast....on his day very tough to play against as he was fearless but always agonized over hands that he would have won if he had played them...atypical hands that sometimes hit...92off etc no matter how many times we spoke about strategy he would always come back to taking the shot no matter what....as such he was a very frustrated player and lost more than he should have even with huge stacks the finer points of the skill of the game eluded these two players and it cost them money at the end of the day that probably to this day they don't realize. luck is just a word we use to ascribe to outcomes that are not according to the expected aces losing to 62 off etc (which happened to me and cleaned me out of a tournament 62 off shoved blind). however there is a percentage attached to every hand and one has to account for the possibility that one might lose with any given hand that is why there are raises pre and blocking bets to try to mitigate the entry of those other players into a hand. so to me its 85% skill 90% skill and 10% variance one could say that some players rely on a style or a strategy that takes full account of the probability of that variance but it is still a style or a strategy and hence reflective of a type of skill based approach. luck doesn't exist except on pokerstars where their bots are unreasonably lucky an unreasonable amount of the time [/QUOTE]

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