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Message: [QUOTE="OzExorcist, post: 1010827, member: 23910"] Don't be sorry. I've got three words for you: "Raise one million". Jerry Yang was, and still is, a luckbox donkey. What had he done before the 2007 Main Event? Nothing. What's he done since the 2007 Main Event? Nothing. How did he perform at the 2008 WSOP? Laughably. My gawd, people thought Jamie Gold was bad... If we need further proof, let's look at the 2005 Main Event, and the performance of one Tiffany Williamson. She made it to the top 20, despite doing things like taking an absolutely epic amount of time deciding to fold KJ to a four-bet preflop shove on the final day at the Rio. Donkey, plain and simple, 100%. Donkeys can and do make it deep in the Main Event all the time nowadays. [B]Fact.[/B] It's just the nature of the tournament - with over 6000 entrants, running like god is the name of the game. If luck weren't the major deciding factor then Hellmuth, who has a style that's about as perfect for the Main Event as anyone's, would make it deep every year. He doesn't. Didn't someone once acknowledge that by saying that if luck weren't a factor they'd win every one? I just wish I could remember who it was... :rolleyes: I don't dispute for a second that Hellmuth is among the best NLHE donkament players in the world, and has been for many years. What I do dispute though is the amount he's "done" for poker. Look at the criteria you yourself have posted for the Poker Hall of Fame. [B]None[/B] of them refer to "doing" anything "for" the game of poker. They just require that you've played for lots of money against good players for lots of years. Hellmuth has done an awful lot for [I]himself[/I], using poker as a vehicle, and FWIW I respect that. But what's he done [I]for[/I] poker? Was he the one behind the Moneymaker effect? No. Did he introduce hole card cameras? No. Was he one of the players that took on the WPT over the player release issue? No. Has he been especially outspoken about the UIEGA? No. Was he behind the push to standardise major tournament rules? Erm... no. Is he even on the WSOP Players Advisory Council? No. Did he write the book that got loads of people into poker? No, Doyle did that. Does he [I]still[/I] shill for a site that was involved in a massive cheating scandal, and did he stay silent about it? Actually... yes, he did. And granted, he was a founding member of the WPA. But so were 128 other professionals. And Brandi Hawbaker. So read into that what you will. [B]Cliff notes:[/B] Phil Hellmuth has done lots for himself, and I respect both that and his poker skills. He hasn't done a great deal [I]for poker[/I] though. That's OK, nobody says he has to. But the facts stand. [/QUOTE]

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