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Message: [QUOTE="jasperkensen, post: 3225079, member: 205189"] There is a huge aspect of skill involved in the game. Mostly, it's just to do with judgement and timing. Skilled players are capable of laying down big hands, and also calling with King high. They are not always right, but most of the time they are. Same with stock brokers. They aren't always right. Just 65% of the time. I am by no means a great poker player, but a couple of hands I played in a live tournament this evening illustrate the luck vs skill aspect quite well I think. 1: I had A 8 of spades. Not a monster, but it was a relatively cheap flop, so I call from the SB. Flop come 10 8 2 r. Table was a bit aggressive, so I raised about 40% of the pot to get rid of speculative hands and draws of any kind. Everyone folds except one guy who calls, whom also has a medium stack. Turn comes another 8. I bet out half pot. Opponent goes All In, I call, he turns over 10 8 for a Full House. River was a brick. Luck or mistake on my part? I think there can be no question that it was my mistake. He has limped in, calls a raise, and then moves all in when the 2nd 8 hits. Alarm bells should have gone off in my head... I just didn't listen to them. I was too eager to get some chips. He was lucky, to be allowed to limp in, to hit the board the way he did, and lucky to have some idiot across from him calling his all in. 2: I check the BB with Q 10. 10 hits the board, SB bets. I call. This goes on and on till he shows me K 10. I knew I should have gotten away from that one. But I didn't. Terrible call really with all those bets. The SB? Lucky to have someone calling the bets. 3: Whole table limps to my button, and I wake up with KK. I make it 6BB, and BB goes all in with medium stack. Everyone folds round to me, and I obviously call with about 25 BB behind me. He shows pocket 4s. And then... Yes. You guessed it. He makes trip 4s on the turn. That is bad luck. All Ins generally are. I love No Limit but the All Ins are ridiculous some times. Anyway... 4: After a rebuy I regain composure. Everyone limps in and I check my BB with 5h8c. Flop comes Jc 6h 7c SB check, I bet 2BB, everyone folds except one who calls. Turn comes 4c Great. I made a straight. But there's a flush out there. I bet half pot, opponent goes all in, I have like 10BB behind so I call. He shows the flush. Good night. Good game. That's sort of bad luck, and it isn't. It's a gamble. It's luck for him to make his flush on a card that completes my straight, and I am short stacked. See, you can opt out of any hand at any time. But when you don't, you are wagering that your opponent doesn't have the hand that beats you. That these hands come together in a hand is chance, but it's your decision where you decide to start beating your chest, and where you back down. And most of the time, "bad luck" is when you don't back down. Odds don't work out over an evening. With so many combinations, it takes years to even out. If you go all in with 22 against AK, you are a favourite. Just. That doesn't mean that you will win just over 1 out of 2. AK could beat you all 3 times in an evening. The next evening you might win all 3. Or not. Cards are in a completely random order. You might hit quads twice in an evening and then not see one for another 4 years. Doyle Brunson said in his book that he has had one Royal Flush, and seen another (or something like that) in 70 years of playing. I started playing this year and got one. So yes. Poker is very much down to chance. Absolutely. And that makes it a gamble. But unlike Roulette, you have a choice when you gamble. And that's where the skill can help you gain an edge and profit in the long run. [/QUOTE]

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