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Message: [QUOTE="SwoleRake, post: 1976238, member: 92031"] [B] When you use the rule of four, you should learn to remember a couple of things. One is that it only applies if you get to see both the turn and the river; for example, if you're all in pre- or on the flop. However, it's pretty common to face a bet on the flop with the likelihood that you'll face another on the turn. In these cases, the rule of 2 estimates your probability of hitting an out on the turn, and if you miss, its the same on the river. The situation isn't the same because you only get to see the river when you call the turn bet which you won't always be in position to do. There's also the concept of partial, effective or discounted outs. As a simplified example, let's say you're drawing to a baby flush on the flop. Nine cards will make it for you, but none of them give you the nuts. So you have 0 outs to the nuts, but hitting the flush still gives you a good chance to win the pot. Let's assume you estimate it will win 75% of the time. Your effective outs are 9 cards that make the flush x 75% = 6.75. If you're all in or are certain to see the turn and river because you're never going to fold,you can then use the rule of 4 to estimate that you have about a 4 x 6.75 % chance to win the pot. As above, it's more complex if / when there will be further betting.[/B] Arjonis, Excuse my ignorance but I have a question about the rule of 4 and 2, if the situation is im not all in, why do I still multiply by only 2 on turn and on the river? Why does the rule of 4 and 2 only include when you are guarantee to see both the turn and the river cards? So when people are placing their bets they make the decision by multiplying their outs by 2 and comparing that percentage to the Pot Odds to see if its profitable in the long run? [/QUOTE]

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