Rake at HU

arkadiy · Jan 19, 2008

After bringing $30 to the table, my opponent also had $30.

1 hour later, there was like $45 at the table, PokerStars rake at heads-up ring tables is INSANE.....

pantin007 · Jan 19, 2008

well thats kinda normal at 25c-50c nl. 1 30$ pot can see a rake of like 4$ which i think is rediculous

arkadiy · Jan 19, 2008

Actually I just checked, I had 1,013 hands at .25/.50 HU NL and it's $50 rake...

4Aces · Jan 19, 2008

I really like stars, but Ive considered changing sites just for rakeback. The rake at stars is absolutely pathetic. I dont know if all sites rake is the same, but if it is, then the rake on all sites is PATHETIC.

arkadiy · Jan 19, 2008

I think it might be worse at low limits on FullTilt but better at high limits.

pantin007 · Jan 19, 2008

it is worse at ftp on the low stakes

dj11 · Jan 19, 2008

Rake really makes a case for play money doesn't it? Tourney fee's do also, but they are at least stated up front. On the other hand, you build up FPP's faster with bigger rakes!

nevadanick · Jan 19, 2008

dj11 said:
Rake really makes a case for play money doesn't it? Tourney fee's do also, but they are at least stated up front. On the other hand, you build up FPP's faster with bigger rakes!

There ya go - the 'how to' on getting ur $5 baseball cap faster ...

arkadiy · Jan 19, 2008

dj11 said:
Rake really makes a case for play money doesn't it? Tourney fee's do also, but they are at least stated up front. On the other hand, you build up FPP's faster with bigger rakes!

That's what I find strange. Sitting at .25/.50 heads-up for about an hour and $15 - $25 in rake, I got 5fpp, since 2008 started I have not been getting any FPP at all, and I am playing at bigger stakes....

I don't know, but at heads-up and at Limit poker, I have not been able to get any FPP even when rake is bigger.

So

vanquish · Jan 19, 2008

at least you'll have a porsche within a month or so

arkadiy · Jan 19, 2008

vanquish said:
at least you'll have a porsche within a month or so

Or about 10 years.......

vanquish · Jan 19, 2008

you poasted like 5 seconds before me dammit

arkadiy · Jan 19, 2008

vanquish said:
you poasted like 5 seconds before me dammit

lol

zachvac · Jan 19, 2008

Rake is not bad at the full ring tables. It's the same rake, but it's split among 9 people. You're folding most hands anyway there. In HU it's a lot different. Lot of raked pots, lots of back and forths. If you play HU ring games your goal should be to get in the opponent's head and bust him. If I sit down with $50, I'm expecting $5-$10 to be gone to rake. But if I can bust the other guy that still puts me with a +40 profit. Just because the games are so soft at 50nl HU it may be profitable. But playing the same people at HU sngs would yield a much higher profit, lot less rake.

nevadanick · Jan 19, 2008

arkadiy said:
After bringing $30 to the table, my opponent also had $30. 1 hour later, there was like $45 at the table, PokerStars rake at heads-up ring tables is INSANE.....

It's not insane, it's more like ' obscene '....

At this writing, Stars has over 16,000 open tables. OK, not all are 'real' active, others are in freeroll MTT's, etc. Let's just say 10,000 tables are active, playing 60 hands per hour (average). That's a mere 600,000 hands per HOUR.

BnM casino rooms have 3 to 40 tables. Let's average it to 20 (and that's more than most) and it's a BIG casino and the tables are always full. Live average is 20 hands per hour, or a total of 400 hands per hour.

Rake on 600,000 vs. 400 ... HMmmmm ...

arkadiy · Jan 19, 2008

nevadanick said:
It's not insane, it's more like ' obscene '....

At this writing, Stars has over 16,000 open tables. OK, not all are 'real' active, others are in freeroll MTT's, etc. Let's just say 10,000 tables are active, playing 60 hands per hour (average). That's a mere 600,000 hands per HOUR.

BnM casino rooms have 3 to 40 tables. Let's average it to 20 (and that's more than most) and it's a BIG casino and the tables are always full. Live average is 20 hands per hour, or a total of 400 hands per hour.

Rake on 600,000 vs. 400 ... HMmmmm ...

Well, there is a reason people who own casinos aren't exactly poor

pantin007 · Jan 19, 2008

but rake in a casino is standard.... so i think
like 30$ an hour at 15-30 limit

nevadanick · Jan 19, 2008

arkadiy said:
Well, there is a reason people who own casinos aren't exactly poor

What is a surprise is why major U.S. casino owners/operators aren't after the revenue potential here.

I originally thought it might be because they feared distracting from their multi-billion dollar resort investments. I'm past that now seeing the number of people who play online who could/would never go to that 'casino' resort system anyway.

The only remaining logic to not supporting online gaming for U.S. players and operating a U.S. based online poker room is fear.

'Fear' of what? They certainly have the investment capital to start online rooms. Hell, even full blown online casinos with slots, craps, blackjack, etc. They have the funds to hire the best minds in electronic gaming and they must have the 'connections' that would be required.

Feel free to comment, but I see it as a fear to get involved in an enterprise where cheating, dishonesty and greed are so potentially damaging, they won't endanger their BnM reputations getting involved in what is very likely a questionable investment.

Bottom line question: What do they know that we don't .. ??

nevadanick · Jan 19, 2008

pantin007 said:
but rake in a casino is standard.... so i think
like 30$ an hour at 15-30 limit

Can't say they are 'standard', but take a live table with a $3 max rake per hand; no flop, no drop. 20 hands per hour and 17 see a flop. That's $51 an hour.

Online, that same table goes 60 hands and virtually every hand will see a flop and a drop. $180 an hour (for just one table).

See the comment I just posted a few minutes ago to this thread.... Why (?) don't BnM casinos want a piece of this action?

zachvac · Jan 19, 2008

nevadanick said:
Can't say they are 'standard', but take a live table with a $3 max rake per hand; no flop, no drop. 20 hands per hour and 17 see a flop. That's $51 an hour.

Online, that same table goes 60 hands and virtually every hand will see a flop and a drop. $180 an hour (for just one table).

See the comment I just posted a few minutes ago to this thread.... Why (?) don't BnM casinos want a piece of this action?

If you're playing 50nl (I think that was the OP) there's no way you're getting $3 rake every hand. Looking now the average pot at 50nl looks to be around $5. At 5 cents on the dollar that's an average of 25 cents per hand (but remember that for example a 4.95 pot plus a 5.05 pot has an average of 5 but only 45 cents rake = average of 22.5 cents. Same thing with 4.95 plus a 5.95 one. Only 45 cents rake even though the average pot is 5.50). But even if average pot of $5 means $5 every time, casino only makes 25 cents per hand and at 60 hands/hour that's $15/hour, a far cry from $180. Also, that's split among 9 people, so each person's share of the rake is under $1/hour. Contrast that to the HU tables where they don't show averages, but let's assume they're the same. $15 rake/hour, definitely play more hands/hour, so you're looking at ~$10/hour for each player.

samthepro51 · Jan 19, 2008

the rake is insane at any site

KingNothing4 · Jan 19, 2008

that happened to me too, man it sucks, i think our stacks were $20 each and i busted him and only had like $30 haha

KingNothing4 · Jan 19, 2008

o my site is full tilt so ya probably every site has insane rake

pokerchris · Jan 19, 2008

Playing poker to make money or living is much harder work than owning a online poker site. That's why chris ferguson is owing FullTilt poker.
So if you want to get rich quicker, own a poker site instead of playing on it.

arkadiy · Jan 19, 2008

I just brought $30 to the table, he had $25, I busted him after a bit under an hour I think and had $50, not that bad. :\

Rake at HU

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