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Message: [QUOTE="LukeSilver, post: 1286887, member: 59099"] I don't know if anyone has ever actually pointed this out to people before but the idea of sites rigging hands to create bigger rake is beyond laughable its retarded. what do you think happens in the big pots? like where do you think players go after they win/lose a lot of money? In a world where people kept playing no matter what there swings and had an infinite bank roll to inject onto the table yes rigging for big pots would make economical sense. In the real world it would just be stupid. so to keep it simple lets assume we are playing $1/2 nl holdem six handed. one Player (Luckbox) gets AA the Player (cursed) gets KK they both end up all in, assume this to be all in post flop pre flop whatever but they both end up all in. say they were sitting there with $200 each. well Player (luckbox) has won just under $200 after rake and Player (cursed) has gone broke. What will happen a lot of the time is they both will leave. Player (cursed) won't feel like playing anymore and Player (Luckbox) has just had a very nice session and doesn't really want to ruin it so quits whilst he is ahead. Great what does the site get from it? well as a general rule sites take 5% rake from pots but they wont take more then $5 no matter what the pot size, (I am referring to the good sites find worse? then stay away from those) so assuming they both end all in the site makes what $5? I'm not an expert on cash table rake so my figures are approx but the point still stands. if one or both of those players leave the site loses out. picking one tabe at random for six handed nl on poker stars the average pot is $28 and pre flop play is 27%. 85 hands per hour. so assuming the players end up all in are bang on that average mark this means the site is losing money. why? well lets assume they played on for the next hour. 6*0.27=1.62. so there are 1.62 players to see the flop playing to see the flop every hand, obviously this is skewed by pots where there is no flop and the sites generally don't take rake if there is no flop. and sometimes there will be more then two players to the flop. to be conservative I am going to assume that the players pay 40% of the rake on average when they are in a hand. Therefore if every pot is $28 on average with 27% seeing the flop the average player here sees 22.95 flops. since sites normally round down to the nearest $1 we can expect to see $1+ rake taken every pot on average. assuming then the bare minimum stats the average player in an hour will pay 40% $22.95 which =$9.18 so if both players stayed for another hour they could make a combined total of $18.36. or they could watch them both leave and sing as they take $5. Maybe I just don't understand people to much but I know when I am running bad I start playing less and often take a week or two out. I am near supernova on pokerstars the site makes $10 rake of me every hour I play and I play 35 hours a week. if i take 2 weeks out the pokerstars loses $700. I play sit and goes not cash tables but the point stands. the site rigging with bots so that bad players win more then they should, so they keep putting money in, are things that would if the site could get away with probably be in the sites interest, though whether they would risk it is another debate all together. I am an open minded person the Idea of sites cheating there players or doing dodgy stuff is always possible, I sometimes feel I am winning less money then I should, I am still making an income from it though so can't be completely rigged and it might just be me, But I really do feel I lose with kk v AX a lot more then I should. So if your going to come out with rigged theories I am open minded to some ideas, But I know the following as facts 1. it is not impossible to make a regular living from online Poker I have long term statistically significant data from myself that it is doable. 2. A large Site such as full tilt or poker stars Would never deliberately rig pots on cash tables to generate larger rake, because they would lose out in the long run, and believe me they know what they are doing. So if they are going to cheat you there going to do it in a way that makes them money not loses them money. [/QUOTE]

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