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Message: [QUOTE="F Paulsson, post: 456597, member: 6979"] I want to make an addendum to the original post, because I realize I have more to say on the topic. To show what I'm talking about, I'll give an example: The players: Tight/aggressive in early position. He's an okay player. His biggest leaks is that he's slightly too passive with hands that aren't the nuts, and he drops decent hands too easily against bluffs. Doesn't like to call down. Stats around 20/14, meaning that his VPIP is 20% and he raises preflop 14% of the time. Loose/passive player on the button. He sees most flops, even for two bets. He peels almost any flop he sees. He will call gutshots on the turn, and will go to showdown with most pairs, if there's not too much action. He won't pay off two bets on the river with ace-high, though. Stats around 50/7. The TAG raises from early position, and the LP unsurprisingly calls on the button. You're in the big blind. How do you rank these three hands? 1. A9o 2. J8s 3. 44 First of all, I will call with all three of them, without hesitating. Having said that, I'm really not fond of the A-9 hand, because I'm in a really uncomfortable position of offering implied odds, but not getting them. If the TAG has JJ, and the flop is A-high, I won't get paid off. But of the flop is A-high, and he has AK, I'm almost certaingly going to be paying the piper. So that one is on the bottom of my list. Then there are two speculative hands. Of these two, I like J8s the best, because of my relative position. 4-4 is a hand that has little chance of winning unimproved (mostly because I won't go beyond the flop even if I'm ahead at the time) and my implied odds when I hit a set will be decent, but not great. J8s, on the other hand, is a hand that will flop something decent more often than 4-4. I can flop a pair, a straight draw or a flushdraw. I have the aggressive player on my left, and the passive player on my right. It's a hand that I will often go to the turn with, and when I score on the turn, I will often be able to checkraise "the field" with, i.e. trapping them both for two bets. So why do I bring up these examples? Because my list of preferred hands is in exact opposite to what a table coach will berate me for playing. He will probably think that A9o is a "good hand" that he won't blame me for playing, and he probably thinks 4-4 is an okay hand to see a flop with. But if he loses with AA to J8s? He will scold me. None of my posts in this thread are about how it's okay to play any two cards (if anyone got that impression). I don't play any two. I've never intentionally put any money in with 7-2o preflop - although there's a funny story about that hand and me - so don't start doing that. However, the mechanics of preflop vs. postflop play are so much more intricate than just "good hand" vs. "bad hand," and that's something that the starting hands charts can't relay. Also, I'm trying to impress the notion that when taking notes, the poker tracker read of "30/15" is OK for narrowing down your opponent's range of hands (and thus minimizing your own mistakes) but it's important to take the next step too, and note down [I]which mistakes your opponent makes postflop[/I] so that you can exploit them to the maximum! Preflop reads are for hand ranges. Postflop reads are $$$$. [/QUOTE]

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