What is the average hand?

Alon Ipser · Mar 26, 2006

I've got a question that I don't know the answer to, I was just curious. What is the average winning hand at a 10 seated table of Texas holdem?

SexyAceJoker · Mar 26, 2006

When you say average, do you mean like str8 , flush ,2 pairs or starting hand ?

ChuckTs · Mar 26, 2006

the average 'made hand' is 2 pair i think; mathematically i think it's between a pair and 2 pair
the average starting hand is Q7, the computer hand

Alon Ipser · Mar 26, 2006

I mean final hand after the river.

ChuckTs · Mar 26, 2006

yeah i think it's 2 pair

Alon Ipser · Mar 26, 2006

ChuckTs said:
the average 'made hand' is 2 pair i think; mathematically i think it's between a pair and 2 pair
the average starting hand is Q7, the computer hand

So, If I have an AA to start, it is going to need some help for it to beat the average winning hand. AA alone is "not" a winner.

davecc · Mar 26, 2006

So, If I have an AA to start, it is going to need some help for it to beat the average winning hand. AA alone is "not" a winner.

Not when i have them

Osmann · Mar 26, 2006

Remember that the winning 2 pair often uses a paired board, so don't worry Alon. You aces will win quite often without improvement

ChuckTs · Mar 26, 2006

im really not sure alon
it sounds weird saying that the best PF hand in holdem needs help to win, but i do remember hearing that the average hand is 2 pair

zinzan1000 · Mar 26, 2006

AA pre-flop is a monster, but it decreases in value the more players that see the flop, turn, and river.

If all 10 players see the flop, pocket aces has a very poor outlook.

so, if only 1 caller it is great, but the more players that stay in the pot the weaker it becomes.

zinzan1000

Four Dogs · Mar 26, 2006

I read somewhere that 60% of all holdem hands are won with either 1 or 2 pair.

Alon Ipser · Mar 26, 2006

ChuckTs said:
the average 'made hand' is 2 pair i think; mathematically i think it's between a pair and 2 pair
the average starting hand is Q7, the computer hand

This would also mean that a hand with just a high card and nothing else is harder to get than a hand with pair but ranks lower. Hmmmm

Kenzie 96 · Mar 26, 2006

Just curious Alon, aside from it's better to know than to not know, of what use is this information at the table?

Alon Ipser · Mar 26, 2006

Absolutely nothing. I was just curious. I was playing at a .02/.04 table after the tourny this morning and it seemed like every one was in every hand and started me thinking what the average winning hand would be if everyone played every hand to the river.

tenbob · Mar 26, 2006

Ok guys, this is the reason we LEARN how to play.

The AVERAGE winning hand (correct me if im wrong) 10 handed is 3 9's

But the point of raising is to shove out the crap hand that can get lucky and give your big hand more value. Think about it, if ten players limped with revelent PP from AA> then AA is no longer a favourite, but if your push then it becomes a bigger hand, because you induce folds.

Basic stuff guys...................

tucum · Mar 26, 2006

on a .02/.04 table you are going to get a lot of players staying on nothing just because of the low limit they will call anything

clarkyballs · Mar 26, 2006

the average winning hand with 10 players is not 999. it is something that can't be calculated. if you were to set some parameters...like all players stay in every hand to the river...you could come up with something, but that really has no value. there are way too many variables to calculate such a thing.

zinzan1000 · Mar 27, 2006

Alon didn't state whether this was a Limit, or No Limit curiosity.
He just said " 10 player Texas Holdem Table" so the theory of chasing out weaker hole cards while you hold pocket aces becomes redundant to a certain extent.
Plus i think it was a hypothetical question as opposed to a strategic one.
He noticed something, asked himself a question, and wondered what the results might show.

zinzan1000

robwhufc · Mar 28, 2006

clarkyballs said:
the average winning hand with 10 players is not 999. it is something that can't be calculated. if you were to set some parameters...like all players stay in every hand to the river...you could come up with something, but that really has no value. there are way too many variables to calculate such a thing.

No there aren't - someone could sort hundreds and thousands of hand histories into order, with a Royal Flush at the top and 7 High at the bottom, and find the mid point winning hand.

beardyian · Mar 28, 2006

On one of the 2 poker channels we have here - i may be wrong

- but i believe one of the presenters once said the "average" starting hand in NoLimit Hold-em with 10 players was in fact J-3os

And the winning hand was a set of Jacks

Now there may be differing factors involved but that was the claim.

IanT.

robwhufc · Mar 28, 2006

Set of Jacks is almost set of nines so sounds about right. It's a bigger hand than I thought, but I suppose most hands never get to showdown, so winning hands will have to be quite big.

Alon Ipser · Mar 28, 2006

beardyian said:
On one of the 2 poker channels we have here - i may be wrong - but i believe one of the presenters once said the "average" starting hand in NoLimit Hold-em with 10 players was in fact J-3os

And the winning hand was a set of Jacks

Now there may be differing factors involved but that was the claim.

IanT.

I would have thought the average hand would be 78o, the 2 cards in the middle of the deck. But I guess that you can look at it as half the time one card will 8 or higher with the J as average and half the time one card will be 7 or lower with the 4 being average. That would make the average hand J4o.

What is the average hand?

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