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Message: [QUOTE="Effexor, post: 808122, member: 11100"] PT shows mucked cards, why do you need a second program that also does this? Just learn the odds, it's simple. 4x outs are the odds of hitting if you see 2 more cards, 2x outs are the odds of hitting if you see 1 more card. You don't really need to calculate out to 5 decimal places like Zach and his Cray like brain. The way I do it is simple. 50 cards in the deck, the odds of any one of those cards hitting is 2% on the next card dealt. If there are 10 that will help me in the deck, then 10 times 2% = 20% chance the next card will be one of those. If I go all in on the flop (so I know for sure that I'll see 2 more cards) then 10 outs times 2% times 2 cards = 40% chance I'll hit. Anything more accurate than that isn't necessary in the real world. [/QUOTE]