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Message: [QUOTE="OzExorcist, post: 1276599, member: 23910"] I've seen this come up a lot lately, and thought a post on it might be useful. Mostly it'll apply to live poker but here goes. Lots of people have been asking [I]"Isn't the player X's hand dead because he did Y?"[/I] Examples include: [INDENT]- "Player X showed his cards to the person next to him. Shouldn't his hand be dead?"[/INDENT] [INDENT]- "Player X verbally agreed to check down with Player Y while Player Z was all in. Their hands should be dead, right?"[/INDENT] [INDENT]- "Player X acted out of turn, is his hand dead?"[/INDENT] The answer, almost always, is an emphatic [B]NO[/B]. Situations like the ones above are definitely instances of players breaking the rules, but they shouldn't result in a hand being declared dead. The players may be subject to a penalty (having to sit out for a round while they get blinded away or something similar) but their cards will still be live for that hand. There are only four ways a hand can be ruled dead: [INDENT]1 - The cards touch the muck, either because the player tossed them there or the dealer collected them and put them there. This has to be the case, because once they've touched the muck there can be confusion about exactly which two cards the player had.[/INDENT] [INDENT]2 - The player verbally declares "fold". This has to be the case, because verbal actions are binding.[/INDENT] [INDENT]3 - The clock has been called on a player, and they don't make a decision before the time runs out.[/INDENT] [INDENT]4 - The cards have been pushed forward and released, [B]and[/B] the next player has acted on the assumption that the first player has folded. The dealer can rule the hand dead in this situation (note that this rule may be applied differently in different casinos, or dealer discretion may be applied).[/INDENT]If you're play hold 'em*, those are the [B]only[/B] four things that can kill a hand. [B]If none of those things has happened, your opponent's hand is LIVE.[/B] Always ask the dealer if you're unsure. It's what we're there for, even if some of us can be grumpy and irritable sometimes. * Roberts Rules lists a couple of other examples specific to non-hold 'em games - turning your upcards over and mixing them with your down cards in stud, for example. [/QUOTE]

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