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Message: [QUOTE="_dogmeat, post: 1685890, member: 76041"] Yeah, that's where my thought process stopped and I had to take a break :D I was referring to exactly this - you can't wager on the (unknown) state of something with 100% certainty (e.g. villain's cards). By the same token, we shouldn't subtract the burn card. Although it's always there, it's an unknown and it doesn't affect the game in any way, so why should it have an effect on your calculations. The case where Ax folds and Kx stays around is when someone has A3 and someone else has KJ or KQ or something like that, which is a much better hand than A3, although not as strong in absolute terms. [/QUOTE]