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Message: [QUOTE="PurgatoryD, post: 1674221, member: 43498"] Ugh, it is wrong. I think I used the wrong terminology... but then again, I can't seem to get a reasonable sentence out of that using any terminology. I really thought I was on to something at the time. But between the various types of odds and equities... I think I'll just move on to what you posted since you seem to be constructing more coherent sentences. Great example! OK, I see now why you talk about an opponent's range instead of a single specific hand. First of all, you can never put someone on a single hand so that's a bit contrived anyhow. But more importantly, someone's range *before* the river can be very different than their range *after* the river. That makes total sense, especially for a passive player. If they are chasing and they didn't hit, for example, a lot of times they are just done after that. OK, so I definitely see this after the river. I guess it does hold after the flop as well. That's why you can't really do a proper analysis if you put your opponent on a single hand as opposed to a range. So let's say your opponent is tight passive and he'll see the flop on pairs TT or better, AT/AJ/AQ/AK, and suited connectors TJ or better. You're in with 7h 8h. Let's consider two different flops: (1) Flop is 2h 6h 9d. (2) Flop is 9h Th Td. How does the equity analysis work here? It just got a whole lot more complicated than just putting my opponent on "top pair". So even though I may complete my hand roughly 54% of the time, if I do shove, my opponent will only call that with a range that is different than the range that got him to see the flop in the first place. Am I following this correctly? So how would you compute the equity against his calling range? I guess I need to come up with a calling range for him. And his calling range probably depends on my behavior after the flop. For instance, do I give up after the flop if I didn't make my hand, do I do continuation bets with nothing, etc. Am I following this line of thought? This seems to turn into more a read of your opponent (as usual) than an equity decision. Any thoughts on that? Intuitively, if I place a good sized bet after the flop, and he calls, he might be on a better straight draw than me, he might have a full house draw, or he may have a monster. So that's why an all-in shove would not necessarily give me a win 54% of the times that he does call. In fact, I'm probably actually losing more times than I'm winning when he does call, so a shove is probably just a bad bet. Interesting. I really would be interested to see how you work the numbers on that. Thanks a lot for the input! I do try to put people on ranges, but as the hand plays out, they'll call or raise with yet even different ranges at each stage. I think from here on out I'm going to completely disregard any analysis that puts the villain on a single hand. It just doesn't work that way. Thanks again! [/QUOTE]

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