Ask Mental Game Coach Jared Tendler

Jared Tendler · Mar 14, 2011

Poker Orifice said:
I just wanted to bump Jared's thread up here - - it's great stuff!!

Good to know this thread has reached bumping status

TheDevilsLuck · Mar 15, 2011

Hi Jared,

I have kind of a very strange problem. You see; I enjoy losing. It sounds completely ridiculous just saying it, but it is true. I get a sick, twisted, demented feeling of joy from losing. A glutton for punishment some would say. (It's kind of like a feeling of depression and joy at the same time. Like you almost lose your feeling of breath.) Don't get me wrong. I love winning at poker, and seeing how much better I get; basking in the glory of some great play I might have made. I might like the feeling of losing just as much, however. I feel like it is a bad thing for my game because I might do things carelessly. Like doing a play I think is good, but at the same time having an option of it failing and hurting even more. Hmmmmm... I lost all my train of thought for some reason. I feel like I had so many crazy thoughts too. I'm not even sure, if this was an answerable question. (Or a question for that matter.)

Am I making any sense at all?

fletchdad · Mar 15, 2011

Jared Tendler said:
I'm going to answer your post backwards, since the timing of me reading this with my last post is pretty funny. The answer to your question of do as I say not as I do is in the Adult Learning Modle. Btw, I didn't take as arrogant, in fact as the theory show it's a reality for most people. The reason you have trouble doing what you say is because there is a very real gap between what you know and what you've mastered. Another word for mastery would be internalized. Rather than just having to think about how to react better to a mistake, a random life f***ing, or anything else is automatic. That's Unconscious Competence. Interestingly, this level of learning is actually stored in a different part of the brain, in a memory system called procedural memory. If you look this up on wikipedia, or the web, it's likely that you'll find more references to procedural memory to motor movement or basic habits. I think that definition is limited and I've found in my experience that it extends to beliefs.

Since unconscious competence is unconscious, it's hard to know what's been trained to that level. Except when we combine it with another principal of the mind. When the emotional system gets overactive, as it does when you make a bonehead mistakes, it shuts down your ability to think. The decisions you make at that time come from procedural memory or unconscious competence. What this means, is that what you have mastered about how to react to mistakes or life f***ings is how you react. All the information that you know in your mind about how you should react is lost, because you are still in the process of learning it.

Here's the challenge: The only way you can train a skill to the level of unconscious competence, whether it be pre-flop strategy or how to handle a mistake, is by performing or thinking correctly at times when it's most difficult. Basically, you have to be able to perform or think correctly when it matters most.

If you're disorganized, that's a major problem because, it often that means, you have a TON of knowledge, but not enough of it trained. Which means when the moment comes to apply what you know it disappears.

The long and short of my post here, is that I'd recommend you start writing down what you know. How you think you should be thinking and handling these situations. My guess is that you do know a lot and what you need to do now is really master it.

Once you have it written out, read it everyday, and especially before you play poker. Also write out on a note card a couple small reminders - so that you have one statement bullets to cut right through your emotional reaction in the moment and get you thinking correctly.

Expect this to be a fight between what you've mastered - old habit - and what is new (even though you've probably been thinking this way for years, just not under emotional pressure). The old habit is going to fight hard and you need to do everything you can to remain in mental control. Somedays you're going to fall short - but if you win more battles, eventually it'll get easier.

This all makes sense? Help?

Thanks for the appreciation! It makes me happy to know that you and others are getting so much out of me being here.

Best,
Jared

Thanks so much!!! I will put this advice in action, and post an update soon!! It does both; makes sense and helps!

Just as an aside, I am working on my organization skills. I used to be VERY focused when I was learning guitar (I was single and had no kids so life was a bit simpler as far as keeping a rigid schedule goes lol, but I know I can accomplish much more than I have been) and very organized in many ways. Now my bills pile up, my papers get done "when ever" which means a mess all the time and so on. I believe it all ties in.

I have made some simple things, like my desk, my office, my studio, and have a list of what I want to get done. This is over the next couple of week. My theory is, if my desk gets (and stays!!! very important here) cleaned and organized, then my office, my studio etc. this will have a direct effect on my attitude, my feeling of accomplishment any my overall energy when doing anything else. I feel like the fact that I let it get all piled up is a "luxury" I can no longer afford, if I am making sense here.

Anyway, thanks again!!

thunder1276 · Mar 15, 2011

I have trouble dealing with the unknown of poker. Since I play STT's I know that I am going to lose more than half of them but I have trouble truly accepting this so I obsess about it when I start to play. I am not really sure how much it actually affects my game but I am sure that when I am thinking like this I am not playing optimally. Do you have any tips on how to deal with the realities of poker?

Bwammo · Mar 16, 2011

Jared, I'm possessed by an uncontrollable urge to have your babies and it tilts me knowing the impossibility of the situation. As a result, I destroy people on the virtual felt to improve my own self worth...can you please help me with this???

Lol jk. But seriously, awesome stuff, always love reading your words.

Jared Tendler · Mar 25, 2011

TheDevilsLuck said:
Hi Jared,

I have kind of a very strange problem. You see; I enjoy losing. It sounds completely ridiculous just saying it, but it is true. I get a sick, twisted, demented feeling of joy from losing. A glutton for punishment some would say. (It's kind of like a feeling of depression and joy at the same time. Like you almost lose your feeling of breath.) Don't get me wrong. I love winning at poker, and seeing how much better I get; basking in the glory of some great play I might have made. I might like the feeling of losing just as much, however. I feel like it is a bad thing for my game because I might do things carelessly. Like doing a play I think is good, but at the same time having an option of it failing and hurting even more. Hmmmmm... I lost all my train of thought for some reason. I feel like I had so many crazy thoughts too. I'm not even sure, if this was an answerable question. (Or a question for that matter.)

Am I making any sense at all?

Makes a lot of sense, and not as strange as you think. I have a small section entitled, when losing feels good in my book. Here are a couple lines:

"Losing can feel good for a number of logical reasons. It gets the pain over with quickly, you can control it, and it can be a relief from the pressure to win."

The question we need to figure out is what joy you get out of losing? Think back to those times, what thoughts come to mind? What is it you love about the punishment or losing?

Jared Tendler · Mar 25, 2011

fletchdad said:
Thanks so much!!! I will put this advice in action, and post an update soon!! It does both; makes sense and helps!

Just as an aside, I am working on my organization skills. I used to be VERY focused when I was learning guitar (I was single and had no kids so life was a bit simpler as far as keeping a rigid schedule goes lol, but I know I can accomplish much more than I have been) and very organized in many ways. Now my bills pile up, my papers get done "when ever" which means a mess all the time and so on. I believe it all ties in.

I have made some simple things, like my desk, my office, my studio, and have a list of what I want to get done. This is over the next couple of week. My theory is, if my desk gets (and stays!!! very important here) cleaned and organized, then my office, my studio etc. this will have a direct effect on my attitude, my feeling of accomplishment any my overall energy when doing anything else. I feel like the fact that I let it get all piled up is a "luxury" I can no longer afford, if I am making sense here.

Anyway, thanks again!!

I completely agree. Complacency is a luxury you cannot afford. Build the momentum of action, and not only will you get stuff done, you get better at getting stuff done. Which means you can become more efficient at it.

Yw!! I'm happy I could help.

Jared Tendler · Mar 25, 2011

thunder1276 said:
I have trouble dealing with the unknown of poker. Since I play STT's I know that I am going to lose more than half of them but I have trouble truly accepting this so I obsess about it when I start to play. I am not really sure how much it actually affects my game but I am sure that when I am thinking like this I am not playing optimally. Do you have any tips on how to deal with the realities of poker?

Study them. Sounds strange, but the more you study the realities of poker the more real you make them.

I'd also look to see if there are any reasons you wouldn't want to accept the realities of poker. Do you have dreams or wishes, such as winning a lot more than 50%, or making a ton of money. Often what you wish were true gets in the way of accepting what really is true.

Jared Tendler · Mar 25, 2011

Bwammo said:
Jared, I'm possessed by an uncontrollable urge to have your babies and it tilts me knowing the impossibility of the situation. As a result, I destroy people on the virtual felt to improve my own self worth...can you please help me with this???

Lol jk. But seriously, awesome stuff, always love reading your words.

lol. There are some types of tilt that can't be cured.

Good to hear you're enjoying what I'm putting down.

MP33 · Mar 26, 2011

Hi Jared
Some very intersting insights into the way you look at poker.

In your opening post you describe yourself as a fish at this game. I realise this was some time ago. As I understand it a "fish" is a losing player or someone who chases cards all the time.
With your knowledge and expertise I can,t see you being a fish or is it something you don,t take to seriously ( just for recreation for example)

Also have you tried to play the game as a proffesional?

I lost my job some time ago and am currently trying to scrape a living from low stakes poker and surfing the net for offers on on-line gambling sites, but with so many sites and different games i am finding it hard to settle in to a routine of finding somewhere I can play on a regular basis and which type og game best suits me - eg HU, DYM,s , MTT,s , cash , how many tables to play etc etc
what advice or tips can you give me on settling into a regular routine where I am confident of making a small profit despite the downswings?
I think I am an above average player and well disciplined when it comes to BR management

Thanks
Paul

TylerN · Mar 26, 2011

Hi Jared,

Just a quick question. I feel that before a session I start to get nervous and I have no idea why that is. I understand over time good players profit which is why I don't get why i get nervous before hand. It's not like extreme nerves but just feeling little butterflies in my stomach. Bad beats don't affect me really so thats definitely not a source of why but I really just don't know. It's not a major problem but any feedback is appreciated.

Thanks, Tyler

ComplexPlaya · Mar 28, 2011

Hi Jared, I think it's great that you're on CC. I watched some of your old stoxpoker vids, I think about 3. Very good stuff. But then I interrupted watching them, which is what I want to ask you about. That's always been my problem, if I start doing something I have a very hard time continuing with it / finishing it.

I guess I'm looking for ways to motivate myself to stick out something that I've started doing, and finish it. For poker that includes books, video series, learning/applying concepts etc. Any ideas?

Jared Tendler · Mar 29, 2011

MP33 said:
Hi Jared
Some very intersting insights into the way you look at poker.

In your opening post you describe yourself as a fish at this game. I realise this was some time ago. As I understand it a "fish" is a losing player or someone who chases cards all the time.
With your knowledge and expertise I can,t see you being a fish or is it something you don,t take to seriously ( just for recreation for example)

Also have you tried to play the game as a proffesional?

I lost my job some time ago and am currently trying to scrape a living from low stakes poker and surfing the net for offers on on-line gambling sites, but with so many sites and different games i am finding it hard to settle in to a routine of finding somewhere I can play on a regular basis and which type og game best suits me - eg HU, DYM,s , MTT,s , cash , how many tables to play etc etc
what advice or tips can you give me on settling into a regular routine where I am confident of making a small profit despite the downswings?
I think I am an above average player and well disciplined when it comes to BR management

Thanks
Paul

Hey Paul,

Appreciate the good words.

I may be using the term fish loosely. I've never taken poker seriously, it's something that's always been a hobby and so I call myself a fish in the game that my clients or many of you play in, but really I'm just saying that my skill level isn't very weak. I've focused my energy on building my knowledge and expertise in the mental game, and just have not found the time to really learn how to play. Perhaps after my book is done.

Question about your question. Do you find it hard to settle into a routine, because you switch sites when you have a downswing? If so, why do you jump to another site at that time?

Best,
Jared

Jared Tendler · Mar 29, 2011

Tyler69 said:
Hi Jared,

Just a quick question. I feel that before a session I start to get nervous and I have no idea why that is. I understand over time good players profit which is why I don't get why i get nervous before hand. It's not like extreme nerves but just feeling little butterflies in my stomach. Bad beats don't affect me really so thats definitely not a source of why but I really just don't know. It's not a major problem but any feedback is appreciated.

Thanks, Tyler

Hey Tyler,

Having some nerves before you is pretty normal. Playing poker is intense, there's a lot on the line, so being nervous beforehand makes sense. The question is whether it's a problem or if it may actually help.

Being nervous can often be fuel to perform at a high level and get into the zone. If you were an athlete before a big tournament or even before a regular season game, having some nerves before hand is normal and helpful to performing at a high level. The reason it helps them or you get in the zone is that being nervous gets to you pick up on subtle details (automatically). It's those details which allows you to play at high level.

If your nerves are causing you to play poorly, then when you feel them, you can instead realize your primed to play well - so go do it.

Does this help?

Jared Tendler · Mar 29, 2011

ComplexPlaya said:
Hi Jared, I think it's great that you're on CC. I watched some of your old stoxpoker vids, I think about 3. Very good stuff. But then I interrupted watching them, which is what I want to ask you about. That's always been my problem, if I start doing something I have a very hard time continuing with it / finishing it.

I guess I'm looking for ways to motivate myself to stick out something that I've started doing, and finish it. For poker that includes books, video series, learning/applying concepts etc. Any ideas?

Why do you think you stop? What are your goals? How long have you been a winning player? Was procrastination a problem in school?

There are a lot of reasons why you wouldn't be motivated, answering those questions will help me figure out the underlying reason you aren't.

ComplexPlaya · Mar 30, 2011

Jared Tendler said:
Why do you think you stop? What are your goals? How long have you been a winning player? Was procrastination a problem in school?

There are a lot of reasons why you wouldn't be motivated, answering those questions will help me figure out the underlying reason you aren't.

Thx a lot for replying.

I'm not sure why. There have to be some anxieties out there like fear of winning or w/e. Winning player hmm not entirely sure but I guess about a year, with months where I've tilted off a lot though but I hope that's in the past.

My goals are to at least beat 200nl cash, and go from there. Though goals about poker might not be a good thing, as Tommy Angelo says and I kind of agree, it's putting pressure on your game.

Procastination has been a big problem all my life pretty much. Doing better at it, not as much as I want tho. Then there are days like today where I can't be arsed to do anything, force myself to grind and obv play bad.

TPC · Apr 2, 2011

ComplexPlaya said:
Thx a lot for replying.

I'm not sure why. There have to be some anxieties out there like fear of winning or w/e. Winning player hmm not entirely sure but I guess about a year, with months where I've tilted off a lot though but I hope that's in the past.

My goals are to at least beat 200nl cash, and go from there. Though goals about poker might not be a good thing, as Tommy Angelo says and I kind of agree, it's putting pressure on your game.

Procastination has been a big problem all my life pretty much. Doing better at it, not as much as I want tho. Then there are days like today where I can't be arsed to do anything, force myself to grind and obv play bad.

You've successfully answered none of Jared's questions. You do not receive $200.00, nor are you allowed to pass go... and may god have mercy on your soul.

thunder1276 · Apr 3, 2011

TPC said:
You've successfully answered none of Jared's questions. You do not receive $200.00, nor are you allowed to pass go... and may god have mercy on your soul.

He actually answered every single one of them....

MP33 · Apr 4, 2011

Jared Tendler said:
Hey Paul,

Appreciate the good words.

I may be using the term fish loosely. I've never taken poker seriously, it's something that's always been a hobby and so I call myself a fish in the game that my clients or many of you play in, but really I'm just saying that my skill level isn't very weak. I've focused my energy on building my knowledge and expertise in the mental game, and just have not found the time to really learn how to play. Perhaps after my book is done.

Question about your question. Do you find it hard to settle into a routine, because you switch sites when you have a downswing? If so, why do you jump to another site at that time?

Best,
Jared

I play on Sky mainly which being an English only site can get a bit quiet at certain times of day and find myself coming up against the same players a lot. i don,t really jump sites because of the downswings. i am aware it happens and can handle them
My main problem is time management - allocating a time period to play and also try to incoporate some learning within that time

Can I just say i found one of the above posts interesting about enjoying losing. i haven,t come accross this in poker but when I used to play roulette machines and i was losing a fair amount i was almost set on the fact i would lose it all and when i got a win I thought it was just putting off the inevatable. About a year ago i withrew £1000 and after losing about £150 of it on slot machines I decided I,d have a better chance of getting it back on the roullette machine accross the road in the bookies- From about £300 left i had already decided in my mind it was all or nothing - get my £1000 back or lose the lot and after a cpl more spins I knew I was going to blow the lot but still carried on.
It was still a sickly feeling but felt if I punished myself by blowing the lot it might make me think a bit different the next time I thought about doing something similar and like you said it was almost a strange releif

Ps I saw Barry Carter on Sky poker the other night. He mentioned he was working on a book with you. any ideas when it will be out yet?

Thx
Paul

MP33 · Apr 4, 2011

Another quick question that I,m sure applies to other players

I am dyslexic. Does this put me at a disadvantage in poker?
I know there are many levels of dislexia, but i for one struggle with books and reading in general.
I can read but sometimes, especially books i find myself having to read paragraphs several times before they sink in.. It was the same at school with revising for exams - my friends would read a peice of work and it would sink in straight away. Not with me
Apart from the learning side do you think it can affect you as a player - maybe with memory also as mine isn,t that good compared to others
Is there anything you can suggest to combat this?
Thx again
Paul

Tangerine 53 · Apr 4, 2011

Paul

Just a thought (and without wishing to steal Jared's thunder) but if your dyslexia causes problems with learning via reading then have you considered using videos as your learning method? I'm no expert but using other learning frameworks that involve non reading materials such as videos or talking through hand histories with others may be better for you.

SYWTWAF · Apr 4, 2011

Hey Jared,

First of all, many thanks for this thread!

I skimmed through it, and saw an earlier post wherein someone talked about losing interest in their current pursuit as soon as they had become "good" (but not great) at it, and thereupon moving on to some other project.

I have similar issues, and would say that your characterization of this poster as a "jack of many trades and master of none" applies to me as well. I'm pretty sure I've thought of myself in those exact terms before.

Looking back, I can see this has been a pattern in my life. I'm curious by nature and derive great enjoyment from learning and trying new things, but the problem is it's often at the expense of abandoning old things. I've waded through more hobbies than I can remember... piano, calligraphy, webdesign, programming, arts 'n crafts, Braille, cryptography... When I develop an interest in something, I'm driven to great lengths to research and learn it. For that period, it consumes my mind. It may cause me to be negligent of some of my other responsibilities. However, this passion for any one subject has rarely been sustainable, and rather, proven easily displaced by new subject matters that catch my fancy. Once my passion for a field diminishes, so does the effort I make to pursue it. As a result, I'm decent at many things, but not excellent at anything (i.e. jack of many trades, etc.).

I even see these tendencies manifest themselves within poker to an extent: I move from variation to variation, format to format (it's 6-max PLO Cash one day, Full Ring NLHE another day, SnGs the next, Stud 8 on Friday...), and I'm afraid it's preventing me from maximizing what I can get out of any one game (and by extension, from maximizing my profits).

As a kid, it was okay to dabble. To follow my whims. To have superficial knowledge in a wide, unfocused array of subjects. But now I'm at a stage where I should be buckling down and "specializing". I don't want to lose my basic enthusiasm for learning, but I want to redirect it.

This is how I've formulated in my mind what I want to change about myself: I want to stop being so passion-driven, and start being passion-driving. I want to be in control of my interests, rather than have them be in control of me. What steps do you think I could take to start working towards this?

TheDevilsLuck · Apr 4, 2011

Jared Tendler said:
Makes a lot of sense, and not as strange as you think. I have a small section entitled, when losing feels good in my book. Here are a couple lines:

"Losing can feel good for a number of logical reasons. It gets the pain over with quickly, you can control it, and it can be a relief from the pressure to win."

The question we need to figure out is what joy you get out of losing? Think back to those times, what thoughts come to mind? What is it you love about the punishment or losing?

Hello Jared,

Those are some pretty tough questions. (You're really good at this. Hopefully, I can be just as good at answering.) Anyways, when I think back at the times I lose an immediate feeling of anguish follows. Through that feeling is just a huge smile though. Like a mental torture of some kind. Almost like I feel delighted that things don't go well all the time. I feel more interested when chaos ensues. I don't think I answered anything again, but I think that is all I got.

Debi · Apr 7, 2011

Check this out:

Q&A With Jared Tendler

kidkvno1 · Apr 11, 2011

Welcome Jared, i got a quick question here.
If someone beats me in a game, i replay that same person, will it be wrong to want to beat him or her in the next game, that i see them in.
Some say it's hurting my game, how do you see it?

Thanks

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