Punishment for sit out players in tournaments?

What do you think about it?
Sit out from the start to a push and fold stack size is not a fair move, in my opinion.
A poll and a discussion since sit out players esp. in online poker tournaments are annoying.
My ideas to punish them and with that punishment get them earlier out of the tournament.
Players that sit out, or better non players, have to bring in the double big blind regardless if it's their turn to play or not.
This makes the pot more attractive to the actual players.
Will give more action and will eliminate notorious sit outers earlier.
I know this is a deep cut into the general poker tournament rules.
But in online tournaments, they can gather round for round information without risking very much of their stack.

This is great idea but I think player who sits out of whole tournament should be suspended from playing next 2or3 tournaments.
This will stop them from joining tournaments and left it without playing.

Goggelheimer said:

My ideas to punish them and with that punishment get them earlier out of the tournament.

Click to expand...

In the CardsChat individual league (R.I.P.), players were automatically removed from the tournament if they did not take an action in the first two blind levels.

I think this idea is especially nice for private tournaments.

But in general, it's free chips, so I would not mind too much to have 1-2 sitouts at the table. Of course it can get annoying if it's more than half of the table because then it's basically only 3-4 handed table which changes the action quite a bit.

the absence of a player in the tournament can be for various reasons, you need to ask questions but there is no reason to punish this is a freeroll, people sit out for big buy-ins

Goggelheimer said:

What do you think about it?
Sit out from the start to a push and fold stack size is not a fair move, in my opinion.
A poll and a discussion since sit out players esp. in online poker tournaments are annoying.
My ideas to punish them and with that punishment get them earlier out of the tournament.
Players that sit out, or better non players, have to bring in the double big blind regardless if it's their turn to play or not.
This makes the pot more attractive to the actual players.
Will give more action and will eliminate notorious sit outers earlier.
I know this is a deep cut into the general poker tournament rules.
But in online tournaments, they can gather round for round information without risking very much of their stack.

Click to expand...

I think your idea is ridiculous. Players who are timing out (I think that's what you meant in your quiz) have every reason to do so. It's part of the game. It's a player's tactic. By the same logic, let's punish fishes who call with conditional 72. Each player has his own strategy for a particular game: someone needs only to win the tournament and is ready to push in the bubble, and another player does not have enough conditional 1$ to withdraw the money he needs just to buy food.

There could be a simple reason for players sitting out in a game, The first that comes to mind is Internet connection, I myself have lost connection many times in the past and if you believe it is annoying to the other players, what about the players who cannot get back into the game because of something beyond their control.
Power cuts also have plagued me in some games, other times I have had a family emergency come up and had to sit out to respond to it, Life does not stop because you are playing Poker!
Give me a table with 8 sitters and I will gladly take their chips, if it is through something beyond their control or they choose to do so, then that is their decision, but just because some player gets impatient because they have to wait for the time bank to run down, is ridiculous, Patience is part of playing Poker and if you cannot wait for them to bust out, learn to be more patient!

Surely paying antes and blinds is punishment enough?

Andyreas said:

In the CardsChat individual league (R.I.P.), players were automatically removed from the tournament if they did not take an action in the first two blind levels.

I think this idea is especially nice for private tournaments.

Click to expand...

Thanks for giving nice idea should i ever play that individual league one day

Risto234 said:

Thanks for giving nice idea should i ever play that individual league one day

Click to expand...

Well you're a little too late for this.

The individual league was discontinued.

Andyreas said:

Well you're a little too late for this.

The individual league was discontinued.

Click to expand...

Seasonal league (so winter one?) can still be perfect alternative for that though ...

If you think, a strategical advantage can be gained by folding every hand, why dont you just do this yourself? Its not like, someone else have this option, but you dont. Also its not entirely clear to me, if you are only talking about freerolls or maybe CC freerolls specifically, or all online games in general? In the latter case I will say, that neither you or anyone else have the right to determine, what people are allowed to do with their own money, as long as they follow the rules of the game. If someone has paid the entrance fee and wants to sit out or fold every hand for whatever reason, thats entirely up to them.

If you are only talking about freerolls, then playing these is a priviledge, and I could be on board with removing players, who have not taken action within the first two blind levels, as Andyreas describe. But there is a much more simpel solution. On PokerStars a sit-out player cannot win a forced all-in. This makes it highly unlikely, it will be possible to fold all the way to the money, which you have some chance of doing on sites like 888 Poker. And as a result there is much less incentive for people to register for a PokerStars freeroll, which they have no intention of playing.

As for CC games specifically I think, it would be fair to rewoke peoples playing priviledge, if they are found to be repeatedly registering for freerolls without showing up and playing them. Maybe a moderator could give a warning, and if it happens again, then platinum status is withdrawn, or whatever the appropriate sanction might be deemed to be.

My opinion is that in any game you can play as you like - as long as it is not prohibited by the rules - if a person sees poker that way, then that is his right. For example, football can be played without strikers, without even crossing your half of the field. Is this a spectacular game? - of course not. Is this still football? - at 100%.

I think a player, for his money, sometimes has the right to be absent

Goggelheimer said:

What do you think about it?
Sit out from the start to a push and fold stack size is not a fair move, in my opinion.
A poll and a discussion since sit out players esp. in online poker tournaments are annoying.
My ideas to punish them and with that punishment get them earlier out of the tournament.
Players that sit out, or better non players, have to bring in the double big blind regardless if it's their turn to play or not.
This makes the pot more attractive to the actual players.
Will give more action and will eliminate notorious sit outers earlier.
I know this is a deep cut into the general poker tournament rules.
But in online tournaments, they can gather round for round information without risking very much of their stack.

Click to expand...

How would you propose the 'sitters' be punished?

Whether it's a freeroll or a real money game, we cannot enforce anything. Like @Andyreas stated, long gone are the days of removing sitters after the first two levels so, we must work around this issue the way it stands now, regardless if it is a CardsChat tournament or not. I'm sure it is annoying (you are not alone) however, this is a part of online poker even if we don't like it.

Shells said:

How would you propose the 'sitters' be punished?

Whether it's a freeroll or a real money game, we cannot enforce anything. Like @Andyreas stated, long gone are the days of removing sitters after the first two levels so, we must work around this issue the way it stands now, regardless if it is a CardsChat tournament or not. I'm sure it is annoying (you are not alone) however, this is a part of online poker even if we don't like it.

Click to expand...

To work around is nicely said for the same thing I made as a discussion point.
Rules are work arounds for grievances.

Play money games, not freerolls.
No sitters there.
Problem solved.

Andyreas said:

In the CardsChat individual league (R.I.P.), players were automatically removed from the tournament if they did not take an action in the first two blind levels.

I think this idea is especially nice for private tournaments.

But in general, it's free chips, so I would not mind too much to have 1-2 sitouts at the table. Of course it can get annoying if it's more than half of the table because then it's basically only 3-4 handed table which changes the action quite a bit.

Click to expand...

In my opinion, it changes table dynamics with sit outers regardless whether it is a 6 or 9 max table.
Some players tend to play extremely aggressive with any holding to get those "free chips".
It harms normal play.

Goggelheimer said:

In my opinion, it changes table dynamics with sit outers regardless whether it is a 6 or 9 max table.
Some players tend to play extremely aggressive with any holding to get those "free chips".
It harms normal play.

Click to expand...

Which can be a little annoying, if its a freeroll, because then the price pool would have been the same, even if the sit-out player had not registered. But in regular games I am definitely not complaining. If anybody wants to pay $5 or $10 to enter a 9-man SnG and then sit out, until they are blinded away, then by all means be my guest. I have seen this happen a few times, and such a player pay the entire rake for the other 8 players and then some

c.heck said:

Play money games, not freerolls.
No sitters there.
Problem solved.

Click to expand...

You actually believe there are no sit outs in real money games ?^^

Andyreas said:

Well you're a little too late for this.

The individual league was discontinued.

Click to expand...

Risto234 said:

Seasonal league (so winter one?) can still be perfect alternative for that though ...

Click to expand...

Not in my opinion. The beauty of the individual league was your being able to play at your convenience. The seasonal league places you on a team, and you are expected to play on a certain day and time. That means you have a responsibility to be there for the team during the thirteen or whatever number of weeks it is.

Vrotebal said:

the absence of a player in the tournament can be for various reasons, you need to ask questions but there is no reason to punish this is a freeroll, people sit out for big buy-ins

Click to expand...

I fully agree with your position, we do not have to be so strict with that since we do not know what happens on the other side,

I recently played in a mid stakes MTT at Unibet. 8 players at the table and I was the only one playing and every time Unibet changed the seating everybody was still sitting out. This went on for almost 45 minutes. Quite boring really. I ended the game very deep into the money. So where was everyone? My theory was that you needed to register a week in advance and most people had forgotten. In the end they all had a personal reason for sitting out and it cost them their entry fee and potential winnings! That was punishment I think.

I don't see why would you punish a person for gimping himself while sitting out? That player still posts blinds, still pays ante. Most of them aren't getting information for free, they simply aren't there and are doing something else, maybe even have an emergency irl.
As a player who plays against such players I also don't really mind them. I take their blinds for free and adjust my game to playing a smaller ring game, which many players ain't able to adjust so I can also hunt those who are playing.

And how would you even punish them? Disable their ability to play freerolls for a week or 2? They just won't be returning after that, which is not in the benefit of tournament organizer.

Goggelheimer said:

What do you think about it?
Sit out from the start to a push and fold stack size is not a fair move, in my opinion.
A poll and a discussion since sit out players esp. in online poker tournaments are annoying.
My ideas to punish them and with that punishment get them earlier out of the tournament.
Players that sit out, or better non players, have to bring in the double big blind regardless if it's their turn to play or not.
This makes the pot more attractive to the actual players.
Will give more action and will eliminate notorious sit outers earlier.
I know this is a deep cut into the general poker tournament rules.
But in online tournaments, they can gather round for round information without risking very much of their stack.

Click to expand...

This is an interesting proposal.

But there will be unintended consequences such as pumping up the pot preflop. Essentially this makes the game an ante game?

Online poker is just software - so why not delete players at a certain level who have not played one hand?

Personally, I don't like the idea at all and it doesn't break any poker rules to sit it out, even if I don't like it myself, but those are the rules.

Of course it's annoying sometimes and there are always a few greedy players who want to take advantage of this situation, but luckily not everyone is like that.

I've played at many tables where sometimes only 2 or 3 players were playing and the rest were sitting out and we were happy to share the blinds, which is the best solution for me.

The active players have it in their hands and not those who sit it out and for whatever reasons they do it is their personal decision.