When is it clear that you beat the limit?

VovanBaron · Feb 6, 2019

Hello!
I play mtts and mtsngs regularly and I wonder how to get know when I can move up to the limit higher?Should I count on the ROI% or my winrate?When I can say that I beat that field?
Thanks!

veritasi · Feb 6, 2019

hi, Vova! i think you can judge by your bankroll, if it allows you to play higher limits than try it, if smts will go wrong you always can return to lower limits

JeetsMcskeets89 · Feb 6, 2019

.

In my opinion you beat the limit when you have like 100 biyins at that level and can move up to the next

KristaK · Feb 6, 2019

vovanbaron15 said:
Hello!
I play mtts and mtsngs regularly and I wonder how to get know when I can move up to the limit higher?Should I count on the ROI% or my winrate?When I can say that I beat that field?
Thanks!

I agree with Veritasi
moving up to higher limits takes a bankroll that can afford and support those higher limits, other threads and resources give the relative bankroll sizings

i also play MTT and SnGo and find little difference in quality of play unless its a huge jump
like say for buy-ins $3-$11 hard tell difference... when reaching $100+ yes, but below that?

others agree and how do cash players feel in their buyin sizes?

Streetwylde · Feb 6, 2019

As mentioned above. It's smart to let your BR=Bankroll determine that. Once you have at least 50 by ins min. of the stakes you want to move up to then it's ok to do so. Some say 100 but 50 is good also.

sergik1992 · Feb 7, 2019

Streetwylde said:
As mentioned above. It's smart to let your BR=Bankroll determine that. Once you have at least 50 by ins min. of the stakes you want to move up to then it's ok to do so. Some say 100 but 50 is good also.

Hi Streetwylde! To my mind 50 by-ins are good for MTT's just in case if you play 1-3 tourneys per day and in edition you have other sources to boost your bankroll (freerolls, reach parents[emoji4] etc.) But in case if you play for example 25 tournaments per day and, heaven forbid, you have downstrick, in 2 days you have - 100% of your bankroll (let's just say I know the feeling) . So for grind I find good to have 100 + buy-ins.

levidoff · Feb 7, 2019

If you have more than 100 bi, then you can move to the next limit. As soon as it becomes less, return.

sergik1992 · Feb 7, 2019

levidoff said:
If you have more than 100 bi, then you can move to the next limit. As soon as it becomes less, return.

As soon as it becomes less, find a normal job [emoji6] I'm joking [emoji4]
I agree with your opinion, levidoff!

chronical · Feb 7, 2019

2 ways to see it as I see it.
-ROI over disctance lets say you played 5k games you roi is X now you know do you or do you knot win here. YOu'll have to adjust for bad runs/beats/dowsnwing but generalyy thats it. you can add BB/100 also. IT will show a general idea of you play oever the field.
-Tha feels. Lets say you have TT and 15BB and shove over a raise you get called buy A6, K8o and JQo if you lose you canfeel good about playing here because non of these hands should have called you and this limit is weak (for you).
Thas it I guess =)

8bod8 · Feb 7, 2019

ROI tells if you 'master' your current level.
BR tells if you can move up.

John Turnner · Feb 7, 2019

What does it mean to beat the limit?
1) Do you feel that the players in the circle are weak?
2) or do you really win, often go to the final table, often get into the top 3?

Everyone is talking about bankroll. It's true. But here you also need to set yourself a specific goal:

1) Why do you need limits higher? Do you want to grow like a pro player? become number one?
Then set aside two days to play at a higher limit. Watch out for bankroll. In order not to render at the bottom.

2) Or is your goal to earn? then why would you leave the limit that you hit? on which you earn.

In any case, if you play poker without a goal, then you will not determine whether you hit the limit or not.

Look:
There is a man working as a loader. They pay for an apartment, food, clothes, even go to the cinema or go to a bar. How can he determine his success? Does he need to get a profession, does he need an internship in a new company, in a new position and so on ... Very simple, he needs to set a goal in life. Want to become better, want to change jobs, lifestyle, go to a new level. And he should know why he does it. Not just like that.

8bod8 · Feb 7, 2019

John Turnner said:
What does it mean to beat the limit?
1) Do you feel that the players in the circle are weak?
2) or do you really win, often go to the final table, often get into the top 3?

Everyone is talking about bankroll. It's true. But here you also need to set yourself a specific goal:

1) Why do you need limits higher? Do you want to grow like a pro player? become number one?
Then set aside two days to play at a higher limit. Watch out for bankroll. In order not to render at the bottom.

2) Or is your goal to earn? then why would you leave the limit that you hit? on which you earn.

In any case, if you play poker without a goal, then you will not determine whether you hit the limit or not.

Look:
There is a man working as a loader. They pay for an apartment, food, clothes, even go to the cinema or go to a bar. How can he determine his success? Does he need to get a profession, does he need an internship in a new company, in a new position and so on ... Very simple, he needs to set a goal in life. Want to become better, want to change jobs, lifestyle, go to a new level. And he should know why he does it. Not just like that.

Very, very typical: poker players want to get rich, in math: maximise $/hr
When stakes go up, potential winnings go up, but ROI goes down.
So: to maximise $/hr each player needs to find the 'sweet spot'.

FYI: for me this still means: freerolls (hopefully this will change some day)

John Turnner · Feb 7, 2019

8bod8 said:
Very, very typical: poker players want to get rich, in math: maximise $/hr
When stakes go up, potential winnings go up, but ROI goes down.
So: to maximise $/hr each player needs to find the 'sweet spot'.

FYI: for me this still means: freerolls (hopefully this will change some day)

I agree. Poker at any limit is a freeroll. Because if you want to achieve great success, you need to take risks, and this is just a freeroll. In life
same.
Or you can make a career, slowly, gradually, rising step by step and suddenly you will be reduced to retire, so before reaching the penthouse =)))

Yet again. back to the author. He does not ask the right question. Why should he determine whether he beats the limit or not? The question is money. If you have enough money, then you do not need to move to the new limit, if your needs are growing and you need more money, then go.

8bod8 · Feb 7, 2019

John Turnner said:
I agree. Poker at any limit is a freeroll. Because if you want to achieve great success, you need to take risks, and this is just a freeroll. In life
same.
Or you can make a career, slowly, gradually, rising step by step and suddenly you will be reduced to retire, so before reaching the penthouse =)))

Yet again. back to the author. He does not ask the right question. Why should he determine whether he beats the limit or not? The question is money. If you have enough money, then you do not need to move to the new limit, if your needs are growing and you need more money, then go.

Interesting, different assumption leading to different strategies.
My assumptions: never enough money
The question: how do you know when to move up, or even down? BR is only 1 aspect.

John Turnner · Feb 7, 2019

8bod8 said:
Interesting, different assumption leading to different strategies.
My assumptions: never enough money
The question: how do you know when to move up, or even down? BR is only 1 aspect.

OK. I agree bankroll is one aspect, but fundamental!

Then we rely on two variables:
1) we need to win as much money
2) We should not forget about the bankroll. And we must act within it. What are the bankroll frameworks? different ... someone advises 500 buy-ins, someone 1000 ... Someone needs 100-200 buy-ins.

So. We set the size of the bankroll (the more the better) and move up the limits. As a result, either we reach the ceiling, or somewhere we will meet resistance from the players stronger than us. The main thing is not to confuse it with downswing.

Choose the size of the bankroll and the strategy of raising the limits, you need to individually ... Look at the pros and cons. I doubt that anyone wants to accumulate 1000 buy-ins of the next limit. Everyone wants to quickly, instantly =)))

So. In order not to confuse the lack of wealth skill with downswing, you need to have a big bankroll.

Let's ask the author.
1) What cash winnings does he have now at his limit and what he wants to have?
2) what bankroll does he have?

8bod8 · Feb 7, 2019

John Turnner said:
OK. I agree bankroll is one aspect, but fundamental!

Then we rely on two variables:
1) we need to win as much money
2) We should not forget about the bankroll. And we must act within it. What are the bankroll frameworks? different ... someone advises 500 buy-ins, someone 1000 ... Someone needs 100-200 buy-ins.

So. We set the size of the bankroll (the more the better) and move up the limits. As a result, either we reach the ceiling, or somewhere we will meet resistance from the players stronger than us. The main thing is not to confuse it with downswing.

Choose the size of the bankroll and the strategy of raising the limits, you need to individually ... Look at the pros and cons. I doubt that anyone wants to accumulate 1000 buy-ins of the next limit. Everyone wants to quickly, instantly =)))

So. In order not to confuse the lack of wealth skill with downswing, you need to have a big bankroll.

Let's ask the author.
1) What cash winnings does he have now at his limit and what he wants to have?
2) what bankroll does he have?

Good summary.
I think there is 1 thing missing:
- when you have found the level at which you get maximum $/hr, you stop moving up and bankroll just increases (hopefully

).

AvovchikA · Feb 7, 2019

Yes, any positive roi shows that you are breaking through the limit. But you need a distance to look at these data. The more dispersive the game, the more distance is needed. For different games, it is different. But in any case, the more the better. Just if the roi is low though positive, it is worth considering whether you are good enough to go higher, even if the bankroll already allows

Serkish · Feb 7, 2019

sergik1992 said:
As soon as it becomes less, find a normal job [emoji6] I'm joking [emoji4]
I agree with your opinion, levidoff!

lol i might have to consider this

duson · Feb 7, 2019

I'd consider following BRM, keeping a buy-in of 1:100. And possibly increasing that amount if you're playing alot of turbos or hypers as they can have higher variance.

UncleConRon · Feb 7, 2019

My opinion

All poker is the same. The way you move up is by luck. You master the field by winning your percentages then go to luck bet to see if you raise up or are stuck. You will be able to master any field with the right amount of bankroll. You know how a player plays by playing him.

MadMan999 · Feb 10, 2019

If you have 100 buy-ins or more you can play next limit. 100$ for 1$ MTT, 200$ for 2$ MTT and etc.

RedGnom · Feb 10, 2019

John Turnner said:
What does it mean to beat the limit?
1) Do you feel that the players in the circle are weak?
2) or do you really win, often go to the final table, often get into the top 3?

Everyone is talking about bankroll. It's true. But here you also need to set yourself a specific goal:

1) Why do you need limits higher? Do you want to grow like a pro player? become number one?
Then set aside two days to play at a higher limit. Watch out for bankroll. In order not to render at the bottom.

2) Or is your goal to earn? then why would you leave the limit that you hit? on which you earn.

In any case, if you play poker without a goal, then you will not determine whether you hit the limit or not.

I am fully on board with your standpoint.
IMHO, at first, psychological aspect should be considered to move up on the limits and then the technical one (bankroll) only.

8bod8 said:
Interesting, different assumption leading to different strategies.
My assumptions: never enough money
The question: how do you know when to move up, or even down? BR is only 1 aspect.

Of cause, in this context, the mission would require start-up funds to ensure your distance on new limits, you will need your appropriate bankroll for this purpose. But you must consider anyway your eigther ROI (for MTT) or WinRate (for Cash) on the limits, current ones. For instance, you have your bankroll 100 BI on micro limits, you won tournament with entry fee 1 BI and was rewarded with 100 BI, consequently your bankroll was increased but still not enough to jump to the low limits, and you proceed playing over again until you will reach, let's say, 500 BI. Now you can move up because you have bankroll and positive ROI for this, but what was your goal on micro limits? Of course, to earn money for promotion to the higher level, for yourself, but did you consider the distance, number of tournaments? You can earn money fast in the same manner as to lose. It seems to me you have to be more objective to your game and pay attention to the crucial ROI/WinRate which are essential and respectful with the distance. In order to determine this you need to set a goal otherways poker will be for you the game of luck but not game of skill with elements of fortune.

RedGnom · Feb 10, 2019

vovanbaron15 said:
Hello!
I play mtts and mtsngs regularly and I wonder how to get know when I can move up to the limit higher?Should I count on the ROI% or my winrate?When I can say that I beat that field?
Thanks!

Hi Man!
It simply works for me as the following: I have target to play certain quantity of sessions per week with fixed number of hands (i am talking about cash). In period of time I am checking the results compeing the target with win rate and adjust my game. As soon as I will be satisfied, I will consider the new target for playing the higher limits.

levidoff · Feb 10, 2019

I think you need to have at least 50 bi on the limit that you play.

brettlums · Feb 10, 2019

I would move up in stakes around 50 buy ins but if you don't get much roi quickly return to your original stakes and rebuild.

When is it clear that you beat the limit?

VovanBaron

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