Why and how unknown players with no stats win big at PS?

Insomnia6590 · Mar 5, 2018

Sure...you are right
But all in in 66?
You speak about patience
What's happen about that?
I really do not understand
You write one and play totally different

:damnmate:

vavilen_ · Mar 5, 2018

I have the 3-blind I'm on sb is the top that I could get here! with my stack and given that I have behind my back 1 opponent, I'll here push out 70% of the hands! I know what I'm writing and what I'm doing! reconsider distribution!

Insomnia6590 · Mar 5, 2018

Sure..you are right :burnout:
Wish you nice day and thanks for

poker lesson

vavilen_ · Mar 5, 2018

here are the hands that I'll shove in this situation! 22+ A2+ K2+ Q2+ J2+T2+ T5o+95s+ 96o+ 85s+ 87o 76s

finaltable1 · Mar 5, 2018

Insomnia6590 said:
I write couple time about that
But I receive too many negatevive comments and I finish theme
In last 5 days I losse with AA in 60% cases
But many people here write me ''that's normal,this is poker''
ok,i accept his opinion but I do not understand why I can not win in 60% cases against AA
USSUALY I LOSSE IN 95% AGAINST AA

The last example is the game before 2 hours
PS Magic

As i meantioned before...

If you don't have the software that tells you the exact numbers then you're most likely mistaken.
Our psychology is designed in such way, that when we win flips with KK and AA - we're taking it as normal occasion. It's ok! "I was best preflop and i won on showdown". You're forgetting about it in few minutes\hours or days, depending on the value of the pot.
From the other side, when your AA is beat - you'll keep it in mind for a long time. You've expected alot from this hand before the cards start to cover the deck, and when your expectations are ruined - you'll keep it in mind for a long long time.

My post isn't about bad beats, my post is about unknown player with no stats constantly winning flips during one tourney with trash hands, however he was folding against some opponents for an unknown reason. He won vs short stack (20% of his own) by calling preflop push with 43s, next time he folds against push of another short stack, even shorter (15%) WHat hand did he fold if he called with 43s before? He was dealt just one card? Or he's just playing connectors or suited cards or suited connectors? Well you can read my entire post and replys at start, i don't want to write everything all over again.
[FONT=NotoSans, Lato, arial, sans-serif]
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Good luck with your pocket aces next time.

Insomnia6590 · Mar 5, 2018

ok ...but that's just to words
poker is based on mathematics
no hand can win in 100% of cases
but a good arm like AA or KK can not lose in 50% of cases
many are ready to write "but this is the game"
it's not true and the game is not like that
if you take the cards and split a million hands, look at the percentage of hands you get with AA or KK

i don't want to write everything all over again.

finaltable1 · Mar 5, 2018

Insomnia6590 said:
ok ...but that's just to words
poker is based on mathematics
no hand can win in 100% of cases
but a good arm like AA or KK can not lose in 50% of cases
many are ready to write "but this is the game"
it's not true and the game is not like that
if you take the cards and split a million hands, look at the percentage of hands you get with AA or KK

You see, the problem is that you're calculating wrong maths.
Most of the poker sites, books and people are telling you wrong mathematics of the game.
Well, actually maths are correct, but it's not he dominating mathematical system.
For example when you're entering a real life casino, you're ready to win or spend time or have fun, whatever... it doesn't matter if you're there for poker or roulette. What matters is when you're exiting casino - you're either in plus, or in minus. Before you've entered casino your chances to win or lose have been 50/50. When you're in, and let's say you're playing roulette just by betting black or red - your chances are lower, because out of 37 fields, there is 18red, 18 black and 1 green, plus psychological factor - you have to stop at some point and cashout in order to win... if you win little - you prefer to stay and continue, cause you don't want to look like homeless by taking home just $20 right? so when you're starting the game - your chances including all factors are very low if you compare to the chances of the casino owner.
Now let's get back to online poker. Before cards are dealt - your chances to win the next deal are also 50/50, cause you either win or you either lose(doesn't matter if you just fold or go allin and lose all stack, i mean loss in general)
This is the dominating mathematical system by my opinion. It works both for you and both for your opponent. Now let's say you have 8 opponents at 9 player table, and cards are not dealt, what are the chances for each to win the pot when they get cards before they see them? 100% / 9 = 11% for each... Ok you see the cards now, you have AA, the other guy has KK, the third guy has A4, QQ , 27 and so on... Those who don't want to participate in the pot = they already lost their chance and they're giving away their odds. They fold and lose nothing or just a ante. Now we have AA, KK, QQ and A4s left in the pot. 4 people. Let's say again - they all never saw their 2 cards, but they all want to win the pot, the dominating maths is 100\4 = 25% or 1\4=0.25. Ofc if you know your cards and opponents cards - you can calculate differently, like you've seen on TV, like most of the poker software calcs are calculating, but they're all using the lower mathematical system, like you know your own cards plus opponents cards.

The flop is 7 high.

Now people will try to isolate and get rid of opponents defending their hand and stacks with raise or push, right? Each one with pairs has just 2 outs to improve their hand, while A4 guy has draws and able to improve to straight and or depending on suits he can improve to flush. 3 people with pairs have less outs then the other guy with A4s to improve from flop in lower mathematical system, while in dominating one - like if they don't know their own and opp. cards - they all have 25%. If you're using lower maths system and some sort of calc - then you'll find out that 2 times out of 17 deals your pair will improve to set\full house or quads, 15 times it will remain just a pair. So when you're getting AA - most likely you'll end up with showing people 1 pair at the showdown - your AA, if table is paired - then it will be 2 pairs, but set or fh or quads will be a very rare occasion, str8 or flush even more rare.

Usually the more people are entering the flop - the more chances that there will be something above str8 on the showdown. SO what does it mean? The best thing you can do with your aces is push allin preflop to win, this way most probably your 1 pair will be a winner, cause in lower maths system you're ahead of all other cards. But don't forget that in dominating mathematical system you're still 50% with 1 opponent, you either win or lose on showdown, right? 33% with 3 opponents and so on.
Your pain from losing with AA is coming from expectations... you simply want too much from this hand, but it does not cost that much. Perhaps you think that you're a tight player like some articles say - you're playing just top pairs, strong cards and such and you believe that it makes you strong. Yeah - you're right... on a preflop you might be strong and tight, but will you fold your aces if you see raise+3bet infront of you after you saw the flop? According to the pain in your words I believe you won't fold them, you'll keep playing like a tank, cause "there will be A on turn, and A on the river", right? :motz:

I think that strong player isn't the one sits there waiting for QQ-AA and who only shows these 2 cards before going out in the first hour of tourney. A strong player is the one who shows 38 and a 33388 full house at the river, taking the pot. But to play 38 preflop you have to be smart, considering large number of factors.

Here is something for you to to read about AA, but there is not a single word in these articles regarding cards, just something to think about.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gambler's_fallacy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gambler's_ruin

If you want to win the tourney or at the cash table by plaing AA - well, you can try to. Winning a tourney with just QQ-AA isn't much different then winning a lottery.

If you want to become good at poker - go to the casino or gather your friends at home for a game. And start playing without looking at your cards at all, simply never check what you've got until it's time to show the cards. Keep betting\calling\folding like if you saw your cards, but never look at them until it's time for everyone to see them. It's like you've lost your eyes and your brain has to adopt, it has to start using other senses in order to survive in this world.

Insomnia6590 · Mar 5, 2018

finaltable1 said:
You see, the problem is that you're calculating wrong maths.
Most of the poker sites, books and people are telling you wrong mathematics of the game.
Well, actually maths are correct, but it's not he dominating mathematical system.
For example when you're entering a real life casino, you're ready to win or spend time or have fun, whatever... it doesn't matter if you're there for poker or roulette. What matters is when you're exiting casino - you're either in plus, or in minus. Before you've entered casino your chances to win or lose have been 50/50. When you're in, and let's say you're playing roulette just by betting black or red - your chances are lower, because out of 37 fields, there is 18red, 18 black and 1 green, plus psychological factor - you have to stop at some point and cashout in order to win... if you win little - you prefer to stay and continue, cause you don't want to look like homeless by taking home just $20 right? so when you're starting the game - your chances including all factors are very low if you compare to the chances of the casino owner.
Now let's get back to online poker. Before cards are dealt - your chances to win the next deal are also 50/50, cause you either win or you either lose(doesn't matter if you just fold or go allin and lose all stack, i mean loss in general)
This is the dominating mathematical system by my opinion. It works both for you and both for your opponent. Now let's say you have 8 opponents at 9 player table, and cards are not dealt, what are the chances for each to win the pot when they get cards before they see them? 100% / 9 = 11% for each... Ok you see the cards now, you have AA, the other guy has KK, the third guy has A4, QQ , 27 and so on... Those who don't want to participate in the pot = they already lost their chance and they're giving away their odds. They fold and lose nothing or just a ante. Now we have AA, KK, QQ and A4s left in the pot. 4 people. Let's say again - they all never saw their 2 cards, but they all want to win the pot, the dominating maths is 100\4 = 25% or 1\4=0.25. Ofc if you know your cards and opponents cards - you can calculate differently, like you've seen on TV, like most of the poker software calcs are calculating, but they're all using the lower mathematical system, like you know your own cards plus opponents cards.

The flop is 7 high.

Now people will try to isolate and get rid of opponents defending their hand and stacks with raise or push, right? Each one with pairs has just 2 outs to improve their hand, while A4 guy has draws and able to improve to straight and or depending on suits he can improve to flush. 3 people with pairs have less outs then the other guy with A4s to improve from flop in lower mathematical system, while in dominating one - like if they don't know their own and opp. cards - they all have 25%. If you're using lower maths system and some sort of calc - then you'll find out that 2 times out of 17 deals your pair will improve to set\full house or quads, 15 times it will remain just a pair. So when you're getting AA - most likely you'll end up with showing people 1 pair at the showdown - your AA, if table is paired - then it will be 2 pairs, but set or fh or quads will be a very rare occasion, str8 or flush even more rare.

Usually the more people are entering the flop - the more chances that there will be something above str8 on the showdown. SO what does it mean? The best thing you can do with your aces is push allin preflop to win, this way most probably your 1 pair will be a winner, cause in lower maths system you're ahead of all other cards. But don't forget that in dominating mathematical system you're still 50% with 1 opponent, you either win or lose on showdown, right? 33% with 3 opponents and so on.
Your pain from losing with AA is coming from expectations... you simply want too much from this hand, but it does not cost that much. Perhaps you think that you're a tight player like some articles say - you're playing just top pairs, strong cards and such and you believe that it makes you strong. Yeah - you're right... on a preflop you might be strong and tight, but will you fold your aces if you see raise+3bet infront of you after you saw the flop? According to the pain in your words I believe you won't fold them, you'll keep playing like a tank, cause "there will be A on turn, and A on the river", right? :motz:
I think that strong player isn't the one sits there waiting for QQ-AA and who only shows these 2 cards before going out in the first hour of tourney. A strong player is the one who shows 38 and a 33388 full house at the river, taking the pot. But to play 38 preflop you have to be smart, considering large number of factors.

Here is something for you to to read about AA, but there is not a single word in these articles regarding cards, just something to think about.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gambler's_fallacy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gambler's_ruin

If you want to win the tourney or at the cash table by plaing AA - well, you can try to. Winning a tourney with just QQ-AA isn't much different then winning a lottery.

If you want to become good at poker - go to the casino or gather your friends at home for a game. And start playing without looking at your cards at all, simply never check what you've got until it's time to show the cards. Keep betting\calling\folding like if you saw your cards, but never look at them until it's time for everyone to see them. It's like you've lost your eyes and your brain has to adopt, it has to start using other senses in order to survive in this world.

I understand,you know better

mathematics then

poker sites, books and other people...

Nobady here do not wait AA or QQ to win tournament...so is not clear why you speak about that

you are write really strange things without any reason

But in start your later you wrote this : ''

You see, the problem is that you're calculating wrong maths.
Most of the poker sites, books and people are telling you wrong mathematics of the game.''

so if you know so much better than everyone else, then I'm not competent to talk to you

because if you know better than all you are then genius

Wish you good day genius....

Roblandinho · Mar 5, 2018

It is simple, AA is best hand in poker so you should stacking this if you have passible becouse you will win 9/10 but sometimes loose spot with this hand.

Peppinotom · Mar 5, 2018

finaltable1 said:
Ok - I've asked myself the same question.
But
1) constant winnings with trash is against math and logic.
2) strange behavior - showing and folding cards, not going to showdown and not calling small raises.
3) strange behavior of PS staff who sent me the video without nickname of the last and strange opponent.

Just please answer the 3rd question, for a start. I don't care about their hand selection, most of the hands that i've played been AA-KK-QQ-AK, they choose different, not the boring ones. OK! BUT why do they include all nicknames of my opponents in the video, but haven't included the most important one? The last one, which shocked me.
Ok if he hunts for bounties, ok even maybe only on preflop allins, why it was constant winning from his part? Any 2 = call and win. At the last hand I haven't pushed, i did a 3bet and he went allin with AJ and won vs AQ. Back there I was thinking that he's waiting for someone to push, then he calls and it's a coin flip, so i decided to not give him a chance and simply re-raised. He provoced coin flip on his own and won... WTH?

P.S. In addition to that...
At the final table any place and cash difference between places was giving much more cash than any bounty at the table, except for one bounty - his.

I will answer with a counterquestion... WHY WOULD THEY NOT? It is supposed to be posted on facebook, whatsapp, twitter and so on. They might have blend it out for data security of your opponent. Show the handhistory here and we will see...

finaltable1 · Mar 5, 2018

Peppinotom said:
I will answer with a counterquestion... WHY WOULD THEY NOT? It is supposed to be posted on facebook, whatsapp, twitter and so on. They might have blend it out for data security of your opponent. Show the handhistory here and we will see...

I've played with him only at the final table, however i've started watching his table when i saw him in chiplead with 2.6mil. of chips while 2nd in chips had less than 700K. I believe it was when 45 players left. Anyway i've already stated my position in this thread about contacting support and what will happen after it.

Answering your question

WHY WOULD THEY NOT

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gambler's_ruin

This article might help you to understand it better.
Actions of that "Hero" can be compared to this: Let's say we have to flip a coin 40 times vs 40 opponents and write down the results. All of the coins are equal, we have to flip it with a strong rotation minimum 10 meters above our heads. And if for an unknown reason a player believes that it's not the right moment to flip a coin right now - he can wait for the right moment and choose when he wants to flip during 1 hour. 49 experienced coin flippers are just flipping their coins, one remaining 7 year old boy flips his 1st coin after 8 minutes of waiting, 2nd coin after 3 minutes, 3r coin on 54th minute, 4th coin on 25th minute... last coin after 15 minutes and 34 seconds of waiting. There is no wind, no obvious specific muscle power thnique used by 7y.o. Hero. He just flipped the coing in the right time and won 40 times out of 40 attempts.

Mathematically it's possible to win 40 times in 40 attempts. Maybe history knows such luckers who played roulette by betting black and red and won 40 times in a row. That's not my point at all. Yet it's strange, but that's not what i'm talking about. How do you explain why 7.y.o. Hero wasn't just flipping a coin, but flipped it in the right time, each time it was different minute and second of the hour. Any logical explanation for this? Why a Hero calls preflop allin with 43s for 20% of his stack and ignore calling the next preflop push with hmm ANY hand? Why judges are not announcing the 7y.o. coin flipper champion name? If i'll ask PS support - the answer is simple - "you've been there, you've seen everything with your eyes, it simply happened, because it could happen, and if it's not impossible - then it's possible, right?".

That's just too strange, like seeing a UFO or something like that. I feel myself guilty for coming so late with this case and for not writing the video of that tourney like i sometimes do, i was too tired to do that cause back there it was 30hour poker maraphon. I was glad that it's finally over, i've won some more and i can taste the pillow now... But what i saw there is so strange that i can not forget about it and keep thinking about what actually happened there. That's why this thread appeared on forum.

finaltable1 · Mar 5, 2018

Insomnia6590 said:
I understand,you know better
mathematics then
poker sites, books and other people...

Nobady here do not wait AA or QQ to win tournament...so is not clear why you speak about that

you are write really strange things without any reason

But in start your later you wrote this : ''
You see, the problem is that you're calculating wrong maths.
Most of the poker sites, books and people are telling you wrong mathematics of the game.''

so if you know so much better than everyone else, then I'm not competent to talk to you

because if you know better than all you are then genius

Wish you good day genius....

I hope that this article will answer your questions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sapere_aude

this one can also help

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Framing_(social_sciences)

Don't be afraid to use your own mind

Why would Bill Gates write a honest book with name "How to become a billionaire and make your Windows11 like OS in 2020" ????? Would he cut his arm if millions of people asked for a helping hand?

Is there any logic behing telling the 100% working secret of what differs poor and rich?

The logic says that books cost money, and people write books to earn profit. They must give you some information to make their book a bestseller. If a person writes book about trees and grass - that's one thing, author cares about the nature, such information has value in it's area and can be trusted.
But if a pro poker player, or a magician, or a lawyer, or other type of professional liar writes a "honest book"? When and if you're opening Bible you have a choice, to belive the invented story, or to use your own brain.

So, hmmm, why do people keep reading these books and online articles and poker strategy sites which by the end of the day are giving you the link to the right poker site and even might give you some money for registration? You find these articles logical and useful, but will you be smart enough to read what's between the lines? Cause this is the only thing that will help you play at the final table more often. It's Sapere Aude.

Insomnia6590 · Mar 6, 2018

Are you ok :eek2:

oneybiggs · Jan 11, 2019

ive bingo,ed many freerolls at jokastars just to see how it rolls....seems first half of tourney all in wit 27off win win win win ,2nd half after tightening up with a big stack,u give the machine half an inch of a gamblers chance and it will strip your stack while your wondering what happened to your AA that was so unbeatable after the turn hehe i do find the stats and situation you describe very interesting though,probably something in it...will never be a fair fight online in my mind but i love it so keep going...i just moan and groan more with age haha,gl at the tables.oh PS love your reply to the meaning of life question...very motivational cheers.

kelvin22 · Jan 11, 2019

finaltable1 said:
https://www.starswinningmoments.com...160_77s3vdh6ayuc4h9tx6h1_video.mp4&tid=126448

Let me get this straight... you were outed 3rd in this 4.4$ bounty builder, and PS just happened to send you a video? Or has it started doing that with all players recently? Because i've won almost 6k 2nd, once in a bounty builder and i didn't get shit.
As for what you saw, you might have been against a low-baller, and a pro. Then again, it has been my opinion for some time that pokerstars rigged it's game in order to favor some players over others. What you experienced, happened to me, and probably every other PS player, at least once. The probability and equity for things like that to happen exists... and it is above 0%, which is the main reason why, even if it is rigged somehow, it leaves just enough room for doubt so you can never prove it. Things will start to unfold once you make your first large cashout...

finaltable1 · Jan 11, 2019

kelvin22 said:
Let me get this straight... you were outed 3rd in this 4.4$ bounty builder, and PS just happened to send you a video? Or has it started doing that with all players recently? Because i've won almost 6k 2nd, once in a bounty builder and i didn't get shit.
As for what you saw, you might have been against a low-baller, and a pro. Then again, it has been my opinion for some time that pokerstars rigged it's game in order to favor some players over others. What you experienced, happened to me, and probably every other PS player, at least once. The probability and equity for things like that to happen exists... and it is above 0%, which is the main reason why, even if it is rigged somehow, it leaves just enough room for doubt so you can never prove it. Things will start to unfold once you make your first large cashout...

It's not the first video they've sent me, the other one was for the first place in 1Kgrtd, won approx 200 there. Maybe they're doing this more often for the players who use "invite a friend" function, cause I've invited couple of players to PS. Don't have exact answer to that.

As for the fish who won 1st place in that bounty... I wrote what I wrote, I was observing him for 1.5hours, chipleader with 2nd place far behind, he was playing trash cards and kicked out players like a machinegun, always much weaker hand and always wins, even with trash hands.

PS sent me a video, but they haven't included his name in the video. WHAT? WHY? I can clearly see names of all of my opponents in all of the hands in the video, but not the last one.

If you're curious - here he is
http://www.playerscope.com/valerio1169/pokerstars#pager

valerio1169

You can sort by "All data" + order by "Ending" = descending.

He has played 121 games, check the 3rd page - it's the page with his first games. What do you see in the very first game he ever played at the PokerStars?

I see that some BS player has played 121 games to have some win/loss record, in total won 1.5K and dissapeared from PokerStars. Can it be true that the one who is behind such player or such players has many accounts who do the same thing? Win 1-2K and dissapear? Why did he dissapear? Is it possible that he made a money transfer to another player or simply has lost all of his MTT winings to another account during cash game?

I might sound stupid, but I saw what I saw. This valerio player haven't called each and every all-in, but he called or performed his all-ins in the right time, in the winning time. If he called 25% of his stack all-in with a hand like 9-5, then couple of hands later he folds to 10% all-in with WHAT HAND DID HE FOLD THEN? Zero-Goose hand? Rabbit-Apple cards? Some sort of very irrational bullsht has happened there and I have no rational answers.

kelvin22 · Jan 12, 2019

finaltable1 said:
Some sort of very irrational bullshit has happened there and I have no rational answers.

Maybe the guy just felt lucky. I think the best way to get an answer to you question, would be to ask PokerStars yourself. If there is indeed some "fishy" reason, you will most likely get no response whatsoever, or you will receive some very elaborate technical explanation that even they couldn't understand.
You might want to check the "rigged" threads in the forum. They provide similar experiences, and/or opinions. Maybe you will find something similar in there.
Still, the best you can do, is let it go... i doubt you will find your answer.

finaltable1 · Jan 12, 2019

kelvin22 said:
Maybe the guy just felt lucky. I think the best way to get an answer to you question, would be to ask PokerStars yourself. If there is indeed some "fishy" reason, you will most likely get no response whatsoever, or you will receive some very elaborate technical explanation that even they couldn't understand.
You might want to check the "rigged" threads in the forum. They provide similar experiences, and/or opinions. Maybe you will find something similar in there.
Still, the best you can do, is let it go... i doubt you will find your answer.

Ask PS

They will tell me that it's something that is called "Poker" and since everything in that game was according the rules, then nothing strange has happened...

However, when you're observing the chipleader for more than an hour and see such irrational behavior that has no logical explanation what would you think about it?

Yes online poker is rigged indeed. It's something simillar to slot machine, but looks like texas holdem. Since RNG is a "well kept secret", we can only have a faith in what poker room is offering us. It's your choice to believe it or not. But since we know that the casino has some wll kept secret from the players, since we know that most of them have licenses issued by some ofshore islands, since we know that it's a program created by humans, since we know that humans lie and that poker is a game for liars then what is the conclusion?

I see that there are 2 types of winning players in online poker.
One of the types is the player who registered couple of minutes or days ago, and he will win something during his first games. It's a bite to catch the fish, like a drug dealer who proposes a first free dose, a casino proposes some free money to catch the fish in the net. It doesn't matter for casino who will win the MTT - right? Cause rake is paid and prize pool can be distributed randomly, or according to the skill of each player, or why not give the first or fifth place to a newcomer so he will tell about it to his friends and will become addicted to poker so he will either become a good rake generator or will become a depositing sponsor?

The other type of winning player is regular player who generates lots of rake on daily basis.

I'm playing online poker for more than 10 years, started with free $50 bankroll and during my first month I've generated more than 1k rake and cashed out $800... Since then I've played at 80%of poker rooms and I keep playing 3-6 poker rooms at the same time each day. What I do see is that I constantly win somethhing in MTTs in the room where I also play SNGs and Cash, I have a platinum VIP status there and i generate lots of rake with my actions each day... What I see in the other rooms? I'm using 2 accounts at PS one is my personal and the other one is my relatives account... I'm using different iP addresses for each account and both of them have different last names and addresses, one of the accounts has generated less than 30$ in rake and cashed out more than 1.5K.. deposited only $10... I'm not winning anything in MTTs, bad bead story continues for 9 months... The other account has generated couple of thousands in rake and I've also cashed out couple of thousands, experiencing much less bad beats. I'm not changing my game style in different poker rooms, playing very tight in 90% of games. But I do see a huge difference in my winnings, in the bad beat record from one poker site to another. Can I say that it's luck or it's rigged? I don't know for sure, so I won't say anything about it. But I see what I see, day by day.

Why and how unknown players with no stats win big at PS?

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