€10 NLHE 6-max: Poker variance at it's most brutal.

LD1977 · Apr 28, 2014

That is not how you stack maniacs. After someone else stacks him like this you are gonna do what, lament to yourself how you should have stopped being such a massive meganit?

Yes his calling range includes premiums, so what? Look at his entire range which is basically ATCs, all pairs, all Aces, all unsuited Broadways. AKs is 64% against that and I am stacking off all day every day, twice on Sundays and thrice on holidays

Mr Sandbag · Apr 28, 2014

That's fine. But I'm not 4betting from 10bb to 180bb. That's not how you stack maniacs either because you basically beg them to fold.

Thinker_145 · Apr 28, 2014

Okay I'll post some of my other hands where I shoved AK and got called. If you guys think we are mostly getting called by pairs then you are giving too much credit to the micros.

iPoker - €0.10 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

SB: 111.5 BB (VPIP: 23.82, PFR: 15.24, 3Bet Preflop: 6.03, Hands: 732)
BB: 240.2 BB (VPIP: 78.57, PFR: 7.14, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 30)
Hero (UTG): 100 BB
MP: 238.9 BB (VPIP: 34.32, PFR: 16.44, 3Bet Preflop: 6.60, Hands: 1,495)
CO: 113 BB (VPIP: 40.00, PFR: 20.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 15)
BTN: 124.1 BB (VPIP: 53.33, PFR: 10.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 30)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has K♥ A♦

Hero calls 1 BB, MP calls 1 BB, CO raises to 7 BB, fold, fold, BB raises to 13 BB, Hero raises to 97 BB, fold, fold, BB raises to 184 BB, Hero calls 3 BB

Flop: (208.5 BB, 2 players) 7♦ 8♥ 9♠

Turn: (208.5 BB, 2 players) K♣

River: (208.5 BB, 2 players) 3♦

BB shows Q♥ A♣ (High Card, Ace) (Pre 25%, Flop 17%, Turn 0%)
Hero shows K♥ A♦ (One Pair, Kings) (Pre 75%, Flop 83%, Turn 100%)
BB wins 84 BB
Hero wins 194.6 BB

iPoker - €0.10 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

SB: 100 BB (VPIP: 31.65, PFR: 9.42, 3Bet Preflop: 2.33, Hands: 140)
BB: 112 BB (VPIP: 15.94, PFR: 2.90, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 139)
UTG: 122.1 BB (VPIP: 57.48, PFR: 4.72, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 128)
Hero (MP): 105.1 BB
CO: 278.6 BB (VPIP: 37.61, PFR: 11.93, 3Bet Preflop: 7.89, Hands: 109)
BTN: 93 BB (VPIP: 35.25, PFR: 8.63, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 140)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has K♥ A♠

UTG raises to 5 BB, Hero raises to 105.1 BB and is all-in, fold, fold, fold, fold, UTG calls 100.1 BB

Flop: (211.7 BB, 2 players) 7♦ 2♠ K♣

Turn: (211.7 BB, 2 players) K♦

River: (211.7 BB, 2 players) 5♦

UTG shows T♦ A♣ (One Pair, Kings) (Pre 27%, Flop 2%, Turn 0%)
Hero shows K♥ A♠ (Three of a Kind, Kings) (Pre 73%, Flop 98%, Turn 100%)
Hero wins 197.6 BB

iPoker - €0.10 NL - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

UTG: 94 BB (VPIP: 17.39, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 23)
MP: 246.2 BB (VPIP: 72.73, PFR: 4.55, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 23)
CO: 100 BB (VPIP: 17.65, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 17)
BTN: 76.1 BB (VPIP: 8.70, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 23)
Hero (SB): 100 BB
BB: 279.3 BB (VPIP: 26.09, PFR: 8.70, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 23)

Hero posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has A♣ K♥

fold, MP calls 1 BB, CO calls 1 BB, BTN calls 1 BB, Hero raises to 100 BB and is all-in, fold, MP calls 99 BB, fold, fold

Flop: (203 BB, 2 players) 8♣ A♦ 8♦

Turn: (203 BB, 2 players) 2♣

River: (203 BB, 2 players) 6♣

MP shows 4♦ 3♦ (One Pair, Eights) (Pre 40%, Flop 34%, Turn 27%)
Hero shows A♣ K♥ (Two Pair, Aces and Eights) (Pre 60%, Flop 66%, Turn 73%)
Hero wins 189.5 BB

iPoker - £0.04 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 4 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

SB: 114 BB (VPIP: 46.38, PFR: 8.70, 3Bet Preflop: 6.25, Hands: 69)
BB: 128.25 BB (VPIP: 35.18, PFR: 24.12, 3Bet Preflop: 10.23, Hands: 204)
CO: 114.25 BB (VPIP: 22.22, PFR: 22.22, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 18)
Hero (BTN): 131.5 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has A♥ K♣

CO raises to 4 BB, Hero calls 4 BB, SB raises to 114 BB and is all-in, BB calls 113 BB, fold, Hero raises to 131.5 BB, BB calls 14.25 BB

Flop: (374.5 BB, 3 players) K♦ 9♥ 6♣

Turn: (374.5 BB, 3 players) T♥

River: (374.5 BB, 3 players) Q♦

SB shows A♣ Q♣ (One Pair, Queens)
Main Pot [346 BB]: (Pre 26%, Flop 6%, Turn 10%)

BB shows 8♦ 6♥ (One Pair, Sixes)
Main Pot [346 BB]: (Pre 31%, Flop 22%, Turn 21%)
Side Pot#1 [28.5 BB]: (Pre 37%, Flop 22%, Turn 20%)

Hero shows A♥ K♣ (One Pair, Kings)
Main Pot [346 BB]: (Pre 43%, Flop 72%, Turn 69%)
Side Pot#1 [28.5 BB]: (Pre 63%, Flop 78%, Turn 80%)

Hero wins 365.25 BB

iPoker - £0.04 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 190.75 BB (VPIP: 70.15, PFR: 16.42, 3Bet Preflop: 17.14, Hands: 68)
SB: 29.75 BB (VPIP: 55.56, PFR: 11.11, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 18)
BB: 130.5 BB (VPIP: 33.33, PFR: 5.56, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 18)
UTG: 163 BB (VPIP: 28.06, PFR: 14.52, 3Bet Preflop: 2.80, Hands: 311)
Hero (CO): 125 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has A♠ K♦

UTG raises to 2 BB, Hero raises to 125 BB and is all-in, BTN calls 125 BB, fold, fold, fold

Flop: (253.5 BB, 2 players) T♠ Q♥ 5♠

Turn: (253.5 BB, 2 players) 7♠

River: (253.5 BB, 2 players) Q♠

BTN shows 7♣ K♣ (Two Pair, Queens and Sevens) (Pre 29%, Flop 11%, Turn 66%)
Hero shows A♠ K♦ (Flush, Ace High) (Pre 71%, Flop 89%, Turn 34%)
Hero wins 241 BB

iPoker - £0.04 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 4 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (BTN): 209.25 BB
SB: 294.75 BB (VPIP: 36.80, PFR: 4.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 127)
BB: 614.75 BB (VPIP: 83.87, PFR: 70.97, 3Bet Preflop: 33.33, Hands: 31)
CO: 125 BB (VPIP: 18.40, PFR: 12.27, 3Bet Preflop: 9.01, Hands: 379)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has K♦ A♠

CO calls 1 BB, Hero calls 1 BB, fold, BB raises to 4 BB, CO calls 3 BB, Hero raises to 209.25 BB and is all-in, BB calls 205.25 BB, fold

Flop: (423 BB, 2 players) 5♥ 4♦ Q♣

Turn: (423 BB, 2 players) T♦

River: (423 BB, 2 players) Q♠

Hero mucks K♦ A♠ (One Pair, Queens) (Pre 75%, Flop 15%, Turn 16%)
BB shows Q♦ A♥ (Three of a Kind, Queens) (Pre 25%, Flop 85%, Turn 84%)
BB wins 410.5 BB

iPoker - £0.04 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BB: 60.5 BB (VPIP: 72.22, PFR: 11.11, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 18)
UTG: 86 BB (VPIP: 83.33, PFR: 16.67, 3Bet Preflop: 25.00, Hands: 6)
Hero (MP): 125 BB
CO: 94.5 BB (VPIP: 90.00, PFR: 40.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 10)
BTN: 100 BB (VPIP: 24.19, PFR: 17.10, 3Bet Preflop: 6.12, Hands: 311)
SB: 24 BB (VPIP: 17.57, PFR: 4.00, 3Bet Preflop: 1.62, Hands: 1,288)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has A♦ K♣

UTG calls 1 BB, Hero calls 1 BB, CO raises to 3 BB, fold, fold, BB calls 2 BB, UTG calls 2 BB, Hero raises to 100 BB, CO calls 91.5 BB, fold, fold

Flop: (195.5 BB, 2 players) 9♥ 8♦ 2♣

Turn: (195.5 BB, 2 players) 7♣

River: (195.5 BB, 2 players) 3♥

Hero shows A♦ K♣ (High Card, Ace) (Pre 64%, Flop 21%, Turn 11%)
CO shows 9♣ 4♣ (One Pair, Nines) (Pre 36%, Flop 79%, Turn 89%)
Hero wins 5.5 BB
CO wins 183 BB

iPoker - £0.04 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

CO: 54.75 BB (VPIP: 25.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 9)
BTN: 123 BB (VPIP: 25.40, PFR: 17.46, 3Bet Preflop: 6.12, Hands: 130)
SB: 101.25 BB (VPIP: 73.33, PFR: 53.33, 3Bet Preflop: 9.52, Hands: 92)
Hero (BB): 174.75 BB
UTG: 96.25 BB (VPIP: 39.81, PFR: 1.87, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 109)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has K♦ A♦

fold, CO calls 1 BB, BTN raises to 4 BB, SB calls 3.5 BB, Hero raises to 174.75 BB and is all-in, fold, fold, SB calls 97.25 BB

Flop: (207.5 BB, 2 players) K♥ 7♣ Q♦

Turn: (207.5 BB, 2 players) 8♦

River: (207.5 BB, 2 players) 4♦

SB shows 6♣ K♠ (One Pair, Kings) (Pre 23%, Flop 10%, Turn 5%)
Hero shows K♦ A♦ (Flush, Ace High) (Pre 77%, Flop 90%, Turn 95%)
Hero wins 268.5 BB

LD1977 · Apr 29, 2014

There is no way I am ever reading that. Put proper cards next time.

Go advanced -> pick them manually.

darkassassin89 · Apr 29, 2014

The is it more profitable to just shove AK then than play post flop?

Do we have enough data to do that ?

Thinker_145 · Apr 29, 2014

LD1977 said:
There is no way I am ever reading that. Put proper cards next time.

Go advanced -> pick them manually.

It's the way I always put them, I dunno what went wrong here. I do the "copy to forum format" thing from PT4.

SwiftHax · May 1, 2014

darkassassin89 said:
The is it more profitable to just shove AK then than play post flop?

Do we have enough data to do that ?

I tried that on Zoom and got calls from KJ and QJ, so I guess you might make some profit in the micros, but you have to pick the right spots and the right players to do it against.

I think this play was good. He's calling any ace, suited connectors and facecards. You're a favorite against his range. In the following hand, 70% equity preflop. When I lose to these hands, I have to remember that they have 30% equity, thus 30% of the pot belongs to them.

fletchdad · May 1, 2014

Havent read the whole thread, just OP and hand.

180bb AI with AK vs anyone is, as it is played here, not good IMO. Do a poker stove evaluation. When stacks are this deep, AI pre, when the call is 8bb - and you also have the additional players who can still make mistakes here as well - I dont know why you want to GII with AK. Sure, you were ahead (in hindsight) but you are playing poker. And vs this type of maniac, you WANT to play good post flop poker IMO. Here you can be in a potential great pot for cheap. You can get away if you think you are behind.

Arjonius · May 1, 2014

Thinker_145 said:
That wouldn't be a bad decision but bad luck or bad read. Even against good players its generally not easy to get away with AA vs AKs anyways if you play aggressively because by the time you realise you might be in trouble you have so much invested anyways. Who here has ever folded AKs pre?

Even if I had played this hand the normal way I am still losing close to 50 BB without knowing if I really was beat or not.

If you were already convinced you took the best possible line, then why did you post the hand? Obviously not to solicit other opinions.

I'm not saying you should simply accept mine. But consider the entire thread. How likely is it that you're right and everyone else is wrong?

fletchdad · May 1, 2014

Just to reply to the title - "Variance at its most brutal", this I do not agree with at all. Variance at its most brutal looks much more brutal. AI pre with AK - S or os - and losing is not variance at its most brutal.

http://www.bluffeurope.com/PokerMagazine/What-Is-Variance-_263.aspx

c9h13no3 · May 3, 2014

There's no way playing postflop is more profitable, because villain is not going to get it in when he misses. You got his whole stack in pre as a huge favorite against his range. This is standard against a drooler, and this whole thread is results oriented.

fletchdad · May 3, 2014

c9h13no3 said:
There's no way playing postflop is more profitable, because villain is not going to get it in when he misses. You got his whole stack in pre as a huge favorite against his range. This is standard against a drooler, and this whole thread is results oriented.

wow. GII with AK pre for 180bb is the most profitable play here?

lmao

Oh... wait..

playing post vs a bad player... no, that can never be good.............

darkassassin89 · May 3, 2014

All im saying is you could have played best post flop. Pre flop AI vs a luck box whale who is running good ( they suck WE ALL KNOW ) is going to do what?

TAKE YOUR CASH.

You even said it in your OP

That he was running great

If you shove AA vs Him and lose does that change anything?

Thinker_145 · May 5, 2014

I was just bitter at the time I made the thread. Now I am all normal and retrospectively I don't regret anything.

darkassassin89 · May 5, 2014

thumbs up man

move on and take his scrilla back!

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€10 NLHE 6-max: Poker variance at it's most brutal.

LD1977

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Mr Sandbag

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Thinker_145

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LD1977

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Thinker_145

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SwiftHax

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Arjonius

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c9h13no3

Is drawing with AK

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