Losing my "natural" game....

[baudib1]

2-1 OP doesn't return till busto.

 

[CuttleFish]

thanks, will get hold of a copy of "Theorum of Poker". Someone also said "little Green Book" is a good place to start so will try and get hold of that too.

Lost half my stack wed night on a hand that i think i played ok but not sure i could have done anything different. Would appreciate any comments (which i will take on board this time!)
Its a six handed cash game, 2/5NL, min buy in $50 max buy in $300
Starting stacks:
Dealer: $250
SB: $180
BB (me): $400
UTG: $200
EP: $ 300
MP: $ 90

I am in BB and pick up Js 4d
UTG Calls
SB Calls
I check.

Flop comes Jh Jc 4d

UTG checks
SB raises to $20
I call (slow playing here thinking its the best move)
UTG raises to $80
I call again, same thinking as before
SB folds.

Turn card 7c

UTG raises to $50

I come over the top all in

UTG calls and turns over Jd Kd
River card Kh

I lost half my stack from slow playing, but i really thought it was the right way to go here. Having said that, UTG is a pretty conservative player, so I had to put him on J after his raise on the turn, and the fact he came into the hand in the first place, that would have meant J10, JQ, JK or JA. All hands that could have beaten me if it came on the river.

i slow played here because i thought it was a miracle flop and i thought betting at it would move anyone other than someone with a J off the hand.

Was there another way of playing it and still getting max value from it?

 

[baudib1]

nh

don't be results oriented.

 

[CuttleFish]

Flop comes Jh Jc 4d?

Should have been Flop comes JhJc4s

 

[CuttleFish]

nh

don't be results oriented.

Hi baudib. ive always looked at the $ = result, so always results oriented but around $ out at the end of a night rather than anything else.
are you talking more about % win rate being more important?
What i've always wondered, in a simple case, say AA vs AK, AA would win 87% of the time right? But out of 100 hands if I win $10 87 times but lose $ 100 13 times then statistically I would be in front, but $-wise I would be behind.

how does pot size influence % win rate (not sure this is the right term here) or are they seen as two seperate factors that would average out over a larger number of hands?

 

[baudib1]

Don't be results oriented at all. Results don't matter, only the decision making. You only posted this hand because you lost.

AA will beat AKo 93%, AKs 87%. Not sure what you're trying to track or prove with the example because how do you know when they have AK? The only way you would know is if you get it all-in preflop and they flip their cards. If you are suggesting that you win small pots with AA and lose big pots, then you are doing something wrong.

how does pot size influence % win rate (not sure this is the right term here) or are they seen as two seperate factors that would average out over a larger number of hands?

Not sure at all what you mean by this. Pots are won either by showing down the best hand, in which case the % you win is determined by your equity in the pot or by forcing someone else to give up their equity in the hand by forcing a fold -- this can either be a bluff with the worst hand or a bet that shuts someone off from realizing their equity.


I came across a blog by Sauce1234, a legendary baller, that said this recently in a post called "How to be results oriented":

Theory:

Anytime you face a decision, you should be putting your opponent on your best range possible, and from that range determining the best action for your range. If you see showdown, and the hand your opponent flips over was not in the range that you made to model the final decision point of the hand, then you should be results oriented. Otherwise you shouldn't be.

 

[CuttleFish]

thats a very different way of looking at it. makes sense. up to now i have been focussed on $ figures. But if i focus on making the best decisions time after time after time, then the money should take care of itself.

 

[bgomez89]

I don't like the hand. I think slow playing is retarded a lot of the time so I'd just bet the flop because no one gives you credit for a jack. When the one guy bets and the other guy raises, that probably means that one guy has a jack or some other hand he really likes. That is the time to shove because he's probably never folding so I think you could've got stacks in on the flop.

When you kept calling on the flop, if I was playing you, I would've been VERY suspicious.

As far as max value goes, you did pretty much get the max since you got it all in with the best hand

 

[Stu_Ungar]

There is something wrong with that hand history.

How is UTG acting before the blinds postflop?

You need to be accurate when posting HHs

As for losing to a rivered higher FH.. meh that's just being results orientated.

 

[baudib1]

important thing to take away from the hand is that it's pretty irrevelant. Had the cards been reversed you'd both get it in on the turn and be pretty happy about it. Long-term, coolers are not going to make an iota of difference to your win rate, so worrying about playing it badly or playing it well is a total waste of time, unless you are slowplaying too much and not getting paid off when you cooler someone.

Still, even then, that probably has more to do with how you play your other hands. I.e. if you're a total nit who only raises the river/turn with the nuts then maybe you don't get paid off. Focus on your hands that aren't coolers/bad beats.

 

[dj11]

Slow play here is unimportant, if you bet out, villain will at least come along, if not shove it.

There are just hands that come along from time to time where you are in destinies hands, and you will not get away from them. AKA coolers.....

 

[rssurfer54]

Music is a lot like poker. Music is highly maths related, but no amount of programming is going to produce "Sergeant Pepper" or "Beethoven's 5th". To produce these there is a human element that goes far beyond the realms of maths and pyhsics. To produce these you would need to tap into a higher source of information, not found in the conscious mind.

This is just not true. Just because we don't know how to program a computer to do this now does not mean it is not possible in the future.

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." -Arthur Clarke

 

[Poker Orifice]

Is this what post BF has come to? Damn you guys are really f'n patient!! How do you do it?