Moving on up, Cash Game Thread

[fana7ic]

A strong player : D

 

[IPlay]

PokerStars - $0.25 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (SB): 135.88 BB
BB: 33.32 BB (VPIP: 26.24, PFR: 6.01, 3Bet Preflop: 4.25, hands: 152,210)
UTG: 45.36 BB (VPIP: 27.78, PFR: 11.95, 3Bet Preflop: 3.39, Hands: 150,712)
MP: 115.6 BB (VPIP: 28.82, PFR: 12.27, 3Bet Preflop: 3.07, Hands: 147,493)
CO: 54.72 BB (VPIP: 29.51, PFR: 12.05, 3Bet Preflop: 3.21, Hands: 131,570)
BTN: 121.64 BB (VPIP: 35.06, PFR: 14.29, 3Bet Preflop: 4.02, Hands: 145,753)

Hero posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has Q:heart: Q:club:

UTG calls 1 BB, MP calls 1 BB, fold, BTN calls 1 BB, Hero raises to 8 BB, fold, fold, MP raises to 20 BB, fold, Hero calls 12 BB

Flop: (43 BB, 2 players) 6:spade: 8:spade: T:spade:
Hero checks, MP checks

Turn: (43 BB, 2 players) 3:heart:
Hero bets 22.48 BB, MP raises to 95.6 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 73.12 BB

River: (234.2 BB, 2 players) 9:club:

If hands have funky or no stats, assume it is a readless zoom hand

 

[Jillychemung]

How often in Zoom is the limp/reraise anything but AA/KK?

 

[IPlay]

How often in Zoom is the limp/reraise anything but AA/KK?

Honestly, IDK. Isn't limping in MPs spot with AA/KK super terrible readless? He doesn't know if villains are going to isolate wide, etc.

I see people spazzing here on regular tables when they limp in with K8s or 77 and someones raises the limpers and they try to fight back.

 

[MinhANguyen]

Sometimes I see message of me winning pots from hands I folded a few back so I assume that from everyone else folding to my BB when I fast fold? Idk but I'll have to pay more attention and see.

Minh, bro, do you notice your UTG raise being 3 bet by UTG +1 A TON. I swear it seems to happen every 10 minutes at 25NL but never at 10NL and i don't know what to think about it. Can people be raising light there because it looks so strong? I am going to review those spots tomorrow when I have a lot more hands downloaded.

Also yeah, 2 10 and 2 25 zone. Lost a bunch yesterday so I may play 2 10 and 2 regular 25 tables till my roll gets a little higher.

$464.92 down almost 8 buy ins from my peak, I did bluff spew a few buy ins that I am not happy about, I'll post those hands when I can. I got into crappy river spots with like 6 high and just wouldn't give up and felt like I had to bet when I really didn't but time goes so quick I feel like I just spazzed

Not really. At 25NL Zone I remember getting 3-bet not that often, and most of them were blind vs BTN. I recommend opening a little tighter OTB in Zone, not just because we get 3-bet way more often than in cash games, but also because we can just fast fold to the next hand and see a lot more hands per hour. Also, a lot of time the pot is already going to get opened anyway, so we just sat there waiting for nothing with Q9o.

From my experience, UTG/MP/CO raises, especially UTG, don't get messed with much, so opening range there can be decently wide and as the same as a cash game. I think it might be over a small sample. MP shouldn't be 3-betting light with 4 people to act behind him and against an UTG open. I don't think people would really do that with air/super light because they should expect to get called much more often not only by a stronger range from UTG, but also from 4 others to act behind him.

At 50NL Zone however, literally every position I opened from got 3-bet pretty often, which was super annoying. Had to tighten up considerably at 50NL, but I didn't stay there too long thankfully to 2 heater sessions at 100NL shots .

And then at 100NL Zone there's wayyyy less 3-betting than 50NL, which makes life a lot easier. They also fold a ton more to 3-bets, even IP. People called way too many 3-bets at 25NL/50NL, and often tried to outplay me with 9/10/J high/super marginal holdings IP. It's a little strange though because it seems like there are a lot more regs; there are more deep-stacks here than at 25NL/50NL. Probably the absolute $ factor makes people want to spew less with marginal holdings/random crap, and regs are probably not looking to get into marginal spots and spew.

 

[MinhANguyen]

ATs good fold from each. Yeah, I think 3-betting KQs from MP vs UTG is much better than flatting. He can get squeezed if he flats, is going to be OOP vs CO/BTN, and will have no initiative. And then he can also be dominated and have RIO, or get outflopped multi-way.

He is getting better hands to fold by 3-betting pre. He also has decent blockers. KJs/KQo/KQs, A10s-AJs, and AJo/AQo should be folding and are a large percentage of the time. 55-1010 are probably folding given that MP 3-bet. And if you flat, he has good equity against your range, can turn equity and barrel, has position, can take free cards, and can catch the best hand with a K/Q. Or just get you to fold preflop. You're going to be 4-betting your super strong hands, and by flatting, your range is going to be pretty capped.

 

[MinhANguyen]

QQ hand probably sigh folding. In my experience, limp reraises in Zone have been AA a large percentage of the time. And when he checks the flop and then jams over our turn bet, that's pretty strong. I expect to see KK/AA a lot without a spade trying to "protect their hand" and wait for a safe card, or a flopped flush. Maybe spazzed out 1010 from preflop. At the absolute minimum he has AK with a spade or some big draw that he spazzed with preflop, which has a lot of equity vs us. I expect to see that not very often though, as they would probably just call IP OTT or stab the flop. Expecting to see KK/AA/flopped flush often.

Yes, it is pretty bad to be limping behind with AA/KK. But I have seen it on numerous occasions, and I've seen them gone nuts when I flop a set and show a ton of strength. Something like this. Bet pot OTF, call flop raise. Check/jam turn.

Kind of strange. I don't see that many people fighting back against isolation raises when they limp. Almost always I will see them just flat and play fit-or-fold on the flop. Only one time have I seen someone play back at an iso with K8o, which was in Zone 25NL I believe.

Fwiw I've found that one pair hands are pretty much never good when people themselves stack off. Their range for stacking off vs our AI/3-barrel is much much wider than their range to check/jam or jam over our bets, even in 3-bet pots. In single raised pots one pair hands are always dead in my experience. 3-bet pots usually pretty dead too except for the occasional K/A high spaz jams.

 

[bitowl]

QQ hand probably sigh folding.

Feel pretty much the same preflop just because it's so weighted to AA/KK... definitely not flatting either because it's so easy to get lost postflop when an A or K rolls off. A jam pre could be +EV if like you said they have a ton of spaz and the population probably calls it off with Ax cause they're just tilted from time to time.

As played, postflop is weird. The flop check polarizes him to AA with the spade and semi bluffing flush draws... Pretty tough spot on that turn, personally I always check there and try to get the villian to barrel off 1card flush draws. But if you're only in the hand cause you think villians limp reraise has lots of spaz then bet calling like you did is fine. I could see villian having junk that by some miracle is a pair+flush draw on the turn and he just jams it.

Kind of one of those high variance spots where it's hard not to be results oriented. My overall feeling is whenever I start messing around with bluff catchers in limp/reraise and 4bet pots is I get owned by villians with strong ranges taking nonsensical postflop lines so I just avoid it. With QQ pre that's one of the best case scenarios too, where you have a bluff catcher on a non A/K high board. When you're lucky to even get in a tough spot then maybe there isn't a big edge there.

 

[Aces2w1n]

Kk i did see that last yr flatting 3bets so it gets value from 99-qq type hands and avoids the allin pre against aces

I see it a lot less this yr though

 

[Devowned]

Subbed, Ill see you soon. I grind 100 and 200NL Zone on bovada. You may have inspired me to start my own thread, but idk how to convert my hands to post in forums though Gl sir!

 

[IPlay]

ugggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Starting to get sooooo frustrated with poker. Bovada runs like crap lately and have ran terrible the last 2-3 months(ever since I started this thread basically). My average session length is 2 hours and most are under an hour because I am so frustrated.

Anyone have any stories of redemption after a run like this or should I just throw in the towel and find a new hobby? I really don't want to after all the time and dedication I have put into this and I use to really enjoy it but just not so much anymore. It is just a constant 2 steps forward 2 back and repeat. Really 2 steps forward and 4 steps back $$$ wise because anytime I play higher then 5/10nl I run way under EV and get coolered a bunch. Running $180 under EV and I started this bank roll with $250 lol.

PokerStars - $0.25 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

MP: 339.36 BB (VPIP: 23.08, PFR: 7.69, 3Bet Preflop: 25.00, Hands: 13)
CO: 61.44 BB (VPIP: 38.46, PFR: 7.69, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 13)
BTN: 82.88 BB (VPIP: 15.38, PFR: 15.38, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 13)
SB: 86.12 BB (VPIP: 61.54, PFR: 7.69, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 13)
Hero (BB): 100.96 BB
UTG: 65.96 BB (VPIP: 41.67, PFR: 8.33, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 13)

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has J:heart: 2:heart:

fold, fold, CO calls 1 BB, fold, fold, Hero checks

Flop: (2.4 BB, 2 players) 4:club: 6:diamond: K:heart:
Hero checks, CO checks

Turn: (2.4 BB, 2 players) 9:heart:
Hero bets 2 BB, CO raises to 7 BB, Hero calls 5 BB

River: (16.4 BB, 2 players) 8:heart:
Hero bets 9 BB, CO raises to 31.68 BB, Hero raises to 92.96 BB and is all-in, CO calls 21.76 BB and is all-in

Hero shows J:heart: 2:heart: (Flush, King High)
(Pre 31%, Flop 22%, Turn 7%)
CO shows Q:heart: T:heart: (Flush, King High)
(Pre 69%, Flop 78%, Turn 93%)
CO wins 117.12 BB


I donked small on river because I wanted to induce a raise if he was bluffing or from sets/top two/baby flush hands he might have. Are we ever just flatting river vs a fish when we hit runner runner 3rd nut flush?

 

[IPlay]

I check turn because he limp called pre so its hard to get 2 streets of value from worse and his stats indicate he probably isn't limp calling suited aces UTG.

PokerStars - $1 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

UTG: 100 BB (VPIP: 23.08, PFR: 19.23, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 27)
Hero (MP): 96.99 BB
CO: 92 BB (VPIP: 29.31, PFR: 20.69, 3Bet Preflop: 12.00, Hands: 58)
BTN: 148.11 BB (VPIP: 22.22, PFR: 17.78, 3Bet Preflop: 10.00, Hands: 45)
SB: 117.91 BB (VPIP: 34.09, PFR: 15.91, 3Bet Preflop: 11.76, Hands: 44)
BB: 205.51 BB (VPIP: 63.16, PFR: 28.07, 3Bet Preflop: 9.52, Hands: 58)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has A:diamond: 8:diamond:

UTG calls 1 BB, Hero raises to 4 BB, fold, fold, fold, BB calls 3 BB, UTG calls 3 BB

Flop: (12.5 BB, 3 players) Q:spade: 8:club: A:heart:
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets 7 BB, fold, UTG calls 7 BB

Turn: (26.5 BB, 2 players) 6:diamond:
UTG checks, Hero checks

River: (26.5 BB, 2 players) 9:spade:
UTG bets 15.25 BB, Hero calls 15.25 BB

UTG shows 9:club: A:club: (Two Pair, Aces and Nines)

UTG wins 54.15 BB

This guy was getting out of line a bunch hence the large 3 bet pre.

PokerStars - $1 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 109.23 BB (VPIP: 21.74, PFR: 17.39, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 24)
Hero (SB): 104.5 BB
BB: 93.5 BB (VPIP: 30.91, PFR: 21.82, 3Bet Preflop: 12.50, Hands: 55)
UTG: 149.61 BB (VPIP: 23.81, PFR: 19.05, 3Bet Preflop: 10.53, Hands: 42)
MP: 105.61 BB (VPIP: 31.71, PFR: 14.63, 3Bet Preflop: 6.25, Hands: 41)
CO: 159.84 BB (VPIP: 62.96, PFR: 27.78, 3Bet Preflop: 9.52, Hands: 55)

Hero posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has Q:heart: Q:diamond:

fold, fold, CO raises to 3 BB, fold, Hero raises to 12 BB, fold, CO calls 9 BB

Flop: (25 BB, 2 players) A:club: J:heart: A:spade:
Hero bets 13.5 BB, CO calls 13.5 BB

Turn: (52 BB, 2 players) 8:spade:
Hero checks, CO bets 10 BB, Hero calls 10 BB

River: (72 BB, 2 players) 5:diamond:
Hero checks, CO bets 13.17 BB, Hero calls 13.17 BB

CO shows 9:club: A:diamond: (Three of a Kind, Aces)

CO wins 95.34 BB

 

[MinhANguyen]

Well, I went broke 3 times haha. First time ran my $50 roll to $200 from three long weeks of grinding. Then got into a really big fight with my mom, and got super tilted and donked off my roll at 25NL. She basically disowned me (ended up saying she was overreacting, that she did not mean it, and kept apologizing the night after) and when I first opened up Bovada like I did every morning, I tilt-shotted the higher stakes at 25NL. Didn't help that very shortly in my session i got AA vs AK all-in OTF and lost for 170bb on QJx. He overbet jammed over my flop c-bet, I called, and he rivered his 4 outer. Bad flop c-bet and probably bad call on my end against typical ranges, but he sucked out.

Decided to try again a few weeks later with $100. Lost around 6BI at 10NL and tilted off my roll again.

Third time I deposited $250 at 25NL and told myself it'd be my last time, and I pronably wouldn't have tried again until i was in my 20s. I think my game got a little better, and I didn't want to grind out 5NL and 10NL again. Winning a stack felt painstaking and unrewarding to me. Dropped to $143 from suck-out after suck-out and some bad plays here and there when I peaked around $300. I just gave up; I didn't want to deal with it anymore.

Got my aces cracked two times in a row in two 4-bet pots against spazzed out J10o who both turned/rivered two pair for 120bb each. We got it in on the flop. Got my stack to 170bb on one table before almost going to sleep and then got dealt KK UTG. I raise, BTN 3-bets, SB cold 4-bets, I semi-tank and 5-bet jam. BTN tank tolds, SB whom I barely cover tanks and calls with 98hh. I had a sick feeling in my gut for some reason before the cards were dealt. I think he flopped an OESD, so it was still 80/20ish. He turned a heart draw, and backdoored into a flush. So I lost like so much of my roll in these big pots and a few other ones, and I just threw in the towel.

And then I started missing poker a few weeks later, but decided I wouldn't come back until I was in my 20s, maybe out of college or something. I was still watching videos and doing some studying here and there. My friend persuaded me to come back again with my financial money. I gave it one final shot at 25NL with $500. And you know the rest.

Poker is one hell of a roller coaster.

 

[IPlay]

Thanks for that Minh. I'm pretty much in the process of "tilting" my money off at 100NL. Not that I am playing bad but I only have a few buy ins and IDC in all honesty.

PokerStars - $1 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

UTG: 119.4 BB (VPIP: 32.65, PFR: 22.45, 3Bet Preflop: 15.00, Hands: 50)
MP: 130.3 BB (VPIP: 33.75, PFR: 6.25, 3Bet Preflop: 5.00, Hands: 81)
CO: 54.65 BB (VPIP: 33.33, PFR: 33.33, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 3)
BTN: 97 BB (VPIP: 25.64, PFR: 21.79, 3Bet Preflop: 8.33, Hands: 79)
SB: 350.3 BB (VPIP: 40.32, PFR: 27.42, 3Bet Preflop: 19.05, Hands: 66)
Hero (BB): 162.59 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 6:diamond: 4:diamond:

fold, fold, fold, fold, SB raises to 3 BB, Hero calls 2 BB

Flop: (6 BB, 2 players) 3:diamond: 6:heart: T:diamond:
SB bets 4 BB, Hero raises to 14 BB, SB calls 10 BB

Turn: (34 BB, 2 players) 5:spade:
SB checks, Hero bets 22 BB, SB raises to 60 BB, Hero calls 38 BB

River: (154 BB, 2 players) J:spade:
SB bets 86 BB, fold

SB wins 151 BB

 

[IPlay]

Me and villain had some history and he was semi aggro and caught me bluffing once and I got him to fold in another decent sized pot when I flopped a set.

Should I have got it in on turn? I think villain can have bigger flush draws here? Like what value hands can he have here? Basically sets only?

I can't see him bluffing for this sizing and still jamming river with a bluff though but I feel bad about this hand. Maybe flatting flop would be best but I was willing to stack off on flop but once he flats and x/raises turn it gets awkward.

My original intentions were to check most turns unless I made my hand but I think this is a great turn to continue on so I can build the pot against the fish when I hit my hand which should happen often with this many outs.

 

[IPlay]

PokerStars - $1 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

CO: 52.45 BB (VPIP: 19.44, PFR: 13.89, 3Bet Preflop: 5.56, Hands: 36)
BTN: 117.55 BB (VPIP: 28.17, PFR: 25.35, 3Bet Preflop: 12.00, Hands: 71)
SB: 384.59 BB (VPIP: 32.89, PFR: 19.74, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 76)
BB: 141.61 BB (VPIP: 40.00, PFR: 5.00, 3Bet Preflop: 10.00, Hands: 20)
Hero (UTG): 113.79 BB
MP: 110.1 BB (VPIP: 48.21, PFR: 16.07, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 57)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 5:spade: 5:heart:

Hero raises to 3 BB, fold, fold, fold, fold, BB raises to 9 BB, Hero calls 6 BB

Flop: (18.5 BB, 2 players) K:club: 3:diamond: 9:heart:
BB checks, Hero checks

Turn: (18.5 BB, 2 players) 5:diamond:
BB bets 9 BB, Hero calls 9 BB

River: (36.5 BB, 2 players) 3:club:
BB bets 25 BB, Hero raises to 95.79 BB and is all-in, BB calls 70.79 BB

Hero shows 5:spade: 5:heart: (Full House, Fives full of Threes)
(Pre 20%, Flop 0.1%, Turn 2%)
BB shows K:heart: K:diamond: (Full House, Kings full of Threes)
(Pre 80%, Flop 99.9%, Turn 98%)
BB wins 225.08 BB


First time playing in about a week, is this real life? Like how does this continue to happen to me? I even figured he had KK here but there is really no way I can not shove river, right? He can still have AK/AA? Call pre is probably a little sketch considering we are not that deep but his 3 bet is small and its obvious this guy is strong here so set mining should get more paid off a lot here?

 

[akaRobbo]

Still a cooler, but raise turn? He can be on diamonds here sometimes and even when he's not, all diamonds kill action a bit.

 

[Aces2w1n]

Just a typical underrolled story and the inevitable happens.

There had to be somewhere alarm bells were ringing and had to drop down??

U started underrolled and some good times but reality catches up

 

[bitowl]

Anyone have any stories of redemption after a run like this or should I just throw in the towel and find a new hobby? I really don't want to after all the time and dedication I have put into this and I use to really enjoy it but just not so much anymore.

Surprise! Poker isn't so much fun when you're not winning (regardless of whether its luck or skill). You need to develop skills to minimize this and/or just change your overall view on poker.

Imo, pick up a 2nd hobby as a fallback for whenever poker isn't going well. Start quitting sessions early if it's not going well and locking in winning sessions. Some people are good at grinding through downswings but if you're thinking about quitting, you probably aren't one of them. I'm not either.

As for playing through downswings, ever single winning poker player has done this. Lots of people post their graphs on blogs and around the internet. 50k hands losing or breakeven with -20BI swings all over the place... poker is brutal lol.

With this said, I'm coming off a 2-3 month quasi break now. The break was mostly because I started gambling with daily fantasy... didn't go so well though lol. So back to poker it is.

 

[bitowl]

Just a typical underrolled story and the inevitable happens.

There had to be somewhere alarm bells were ringing and had to drop down??

ohhh sheeeeii.... hahaha

I scroll down to finish the thread and see you're playing 100nl with only a few BI...

If you have any roll left you should cut that out m8.

 

[IPlay]

ohhh sheeeeii.... hahaha

I scroll down to finish the thread and see you're playing 100nl with only a few BI...

If you have any roll left you should cut that out m8.

Lol IDC man, I am giving up online poker for a couple months and am just going to mess around at the Casino on weekends or something. Probably just going to run up my roll or donk it off at this point and take a break and try out a different site in the future. Preferably one that has rake back, ACR is looking pretty good these days.

 

[IPlay]

Surprise! Poker isn't so much fun when you're not winning (regardless of whether its luck or skill). You need to develop skills to minimize this and/or just change your overall view on poker.

Imo, pick up a 2nd hobby as a fallback for whenever poker isn't going well. Start quitting sessions early if it's not going well and locking in winning sessions. Some people are good at grinding through downswings but if you're thinking about quitting, you probably aren't one of them. I'm not either.

As for playing through downswings, ever single winning poker player has done this. Lots of people post their graphs on blogs and around the internet. 50k hands losing or breakeven with -20BI swings all over the place... poker is brutal lol.

With this said, I'm coming off a 2-3 month quasi break now. The break was mostly because I started gambling with daily fantasy... didn't go so well though lol. So back to poker it is.

I was better at grinding through breakeven/losing stretches while playing live but that is probably because live is still enjoyable when not winning since you are actually socializing with other people. I have grinded through downswings online though but they never lasted 3 months, maybe I just can't beat the games now? IDK

Online you are all by yourself staring at a screen while slowly losing your sanity and becoming more and more socially inept as time goes by. Not a healthy lifestyle at all.

I 100% agree that I need a 2nd hobby

 

[Aces2w1n]

What makes a player is not when your winning but how you lose and if you can turn things around

 

[bitowl]

Probably just going to run up my roll or donk it off at this point and take a break and try out a different site in the future.

This is classic tilt mentality and you should really try to step away and get some perspective to see what you're doing is irrational. If you want to take a break, withdraw the balance and take a break. Or leave the balance and just don't sign in.

Really you should be dropping stakes and just thinking in terms of buyins to reset your tilted brain. If you don't care about the money at all, just treat it like a play money balance and play for fun.

 

[bitowl]

What makes a player is not when your winning but how you lose and if you can turn things around

This is definitely true. I think a significant part of a winning players edge comes from other players tilting and making bad decisions. You don't have to be a stone cold killer who fights through variance to get that edge. All you have to do is not play when you're on monkey tilt.

Easier said than done though obviously.