Polished Poker Vol. I Study Group

[John A]

Winning Poker Network (Yatahay) - $0.25 NL - Holdem - 7 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

MP: $13.62 (VPIP: 16.19, PFR: 10.48, 3Bet Preflop: 2.44, Hands: 106)
CO: $35.46 (VPIP: 36.00, PFR: 20.00, 3Bet Preflop: 10.00, Hands: 26)
Hero (BTN): $22.55
SB: $15.50 (VPIP: 16.67, PFR: 12.50, 3Bet Preflop: 11.11, Hands: 24)
BB: $25.00
UTG: $25.45 (VPIP: 16.67, PFR: 16.67, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 12)
UTG+1: $27.47 (VPIP: 13.04, PFR: 8.70, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 23)

SB posts SB $0.10, BB posts BB $0.25

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.35) Hero has 8♠ J♣

fold, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to $0.75, fold, BB calls $0.50

Flop: ($1.60, 2 players) A♦ 5♥ 8♣
BB bets $1.00, Hero calls $1.00

Turn: ($3.60, 2 players) A♠
BB bets $3.00, Hero calls $3.00

River: ($9.60, 2 players) 2♣
BB bets $10.00, Hero calls $10.00



I was bought in short and I stationed (Hand was from a few years back) but other then that I posted this hand because I am wanting to check my combo counting and was kind of confused about combos with board pairing. Lets say villains range is A10+ on river, how many combos does he have?

Is it 2 combos for each kicker? So 2 possible combos of each A10, AJ, AQ, AK for 8 combos in total?

No, it's 4 per so 32 total combos.

Any info on opponent?

 

[arod6893]

"There are 3 ways to play JJ and they are all wrong"

What a poker pro told me yesterday at a tournament. Just thought it was funny

 

[Aces2w1n]

lol thats funny as arod

 

[IPlay]

No info, I think it was his first hand at the table for villain. I just assumed a range of A10+ to keep it simple for figuring out how to count combos with trips. Im slightly confused about what you said though. You said there is 4 combos per kicker for trips so it should look like this

A10 4 combos
AJ 4 combos
AQ 4 combos
AK 4 combos

For 16 combos total. I think we might have used different ranges or something though.

Thanks John

 

[John A]

No info, I think it was his first hand at the table for villain. I just assumed a range of A10+ to keep it simple for figuring out how to count combos with trips. Im slightly confused about what you said though. You said there is 4 combos per kicker for trips so it should look like this

A10 4 combos
AJ 4 combos
AQ 4 combos
AK 4 combos

For 16 combos total. I think we might have used different ranges or something though.


Thanks John

I guess I didn't explain it correctly. Maybe the break down will make more sense, and I forgot you had a J so my total is wrong, it's not 32 it's 30.

4 (T's) x 2 (A) = 8
3 (Js) x 2 (A) = 6
4 (Qs) x 2 (A) = 8
4 (Ks) x 2 (A) = 8
Total = 30

Does that make more sense?

 

[IPlay]

A lot more sense, thanks

 

[Figaroo2]

folding top pair to a raise on the flop

Ok I filtered for this and this was the result from where I continued after being raised on the flop us having TPTK or TPGK
(sample size my 280K of hands on 888 Pacific)

Looking at the hands I still won 45 of the 85 hands but almost to a man they were against bad players who were simply aggro donks over playing flush draws or over valuing Top pair bad kicker.
There were also a good few hands against total unknowns who were pushing their luck hoping you would give them credit for being unknown. A lot of these raises from bad players or unknowns came from draws on very wet boards. I'm actually not doing too bad taking into account the two nasty suckouts but this has been a useful exercise.
I only found 18 hands where I bet folded TPTK or TPGK they were mostly very obvious folds multiway or where the top pair was low and were there would have been a decent amount of overpairs.

Monotone boards are also trouble if you don't have one of the suit as there were a lot of examples of having to lie down when 4 to the flush appears.

When a good player raises you then generally you need to get out of the way, especially on dryish boards.
I put in a couple of examples of these, the clue is in the board texture.

I did find a couple of exception where I called down a an aggro player. But yeah there was just a couple of hands in 80 odd.

Pacific, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 9 Players

SB: $11.31 (113.1 bb)
BB: $6.80 (68 bb)
UTG+1: $10 (100 bb)
UTG+2: $18.29 (182.9 bb) VPIP: 22, PFR: 16, 3B: 7, AF: 2.8, Hands: 1700
MP1: $10 (100 bb)
MP2: $8.49 (84.9 bb)
MP3: $10 (100 bb)
Hero (CO): $10.20 (102 bb)
BTN: $9.45 (94.5 bb)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K

A

UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 raises to $0.30, 3 folds, Hero raises to $1.05, 3 folds, UTG+2 calls $0.75

Flop: ($2.25) 2

4

K

(2 players)
UTG+2 checks, Hero bets $1.68, UTG+2 raises to $3.64, Hero calls $1.96

Turn: ($9.53) 6

(2 players)
UTG+2 bets $7.14, Hero calls $5.51 and is all-in

River: ($20.55) K

(2 players, 1 is all-in)

Results: $20.55 pot ($1.02 rake)
Final Board: 2

4

K

6

K

UTG+2 showed A

J

and lost (-$10.20 net)
Hero showed K

A

and won $19.53 ($9.33 net)

 

[John A]

Yeah, that first hand, what decent player at these stakes is CR there with anything for value. Ubber dry... just looks like obvious BS, so you're never folding. I'm not sure what your bold statement is about though. Second hand you can def be beat, and last hand is a little more tricky. Very player depends on that one, but usually you're going to lose some money.

 

[rhombus]

I guess I didn't explain it correctly. Maybe the break down will make more sense, and I forgot you had a J so my total is wrong, it's not 32 it's 30.

4 (T's) x 2 (A) = 8
3 (Js) x 2 (A) = 6
4 (Qs) x 2 (A) = 8
4 (Ks) x 2 (A) = 8
Total = 30

Does that make more sense?

As above, 2aces x 4 for each kicker (8) - 2 as you have a jack

Is it 2 combos for each kicker? So 2 possible combos of each A10, AJ, AQ, AK for 8 combos in total?

The 2 combos you mentioned would be if villain only had suited combos so Ac and Ah multiplied by each kicker ~ T, J, Q, K so 8 in total
Although in your case you have jack clubs so would be 7
AcTc, AhTh
AhJh
AcQc,AhQh
AcKc, AhKc

 

[Ian the Fish]

Anyone up for a sweat session today / Tuesday? I'd be available anywhere from 8PM - 11PM GMT...

 

[John A]

Anyone up for a sweat session today / Tuesday? I'd be available anywhere from 8PM - 11PM GMT...

I'm going to try and be available tomorrow. I'm traveling again tomorrow though. I've been out of town a lot the last few weeks so it's been hard to jump on these calls.

 

[Ian the Fish]

I'm going to try and be available tomorrow. I'm traveling again tomorrow though. I've been out of town a lot the last few weeks so it's been hard to jump on these calls.

Business before pleasure! It's all good! I had a great session with Bruce yesterday!

 

[John A]

Business before pleasure! It's all good! I had a great session with Bruce yesterday!

Hehe... well, just a lot of business and personal travel happening right now. Holidays coming up over here and I'm heading out later today. If you guys are on i'll try my best to pop on for a bit though.

 

[Figaroo2]

still unsure in these mid pair spots

poker stars, $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 9 Players

SB: $25 (100 bb)
BB: $26.14 (104.6 bb)
UTG+1: $25 (100 bb)
UTG+2: $12.04 (48.2 bb)
Hero (MP1): $32.38 (129.5 bb)
MP2: $7.19 (28.8 bb)
MP3: $25.02 (100.1 bb)
CO: $25 (100 bb)
BTN: $12.02 (48.1 bb) VPIP: 63, PFR: 33, 3B: 14, AF: 3.5, Hands: 27

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with T

T

2 folds, Hero raises to $0.75, 3 folds, BTN raises to $1.25, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.50

Flop: ($2.85) 9

6

6

(2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $1.36, Hero calls $1.36

Turn: ($5.57) 8

(2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $2.66, Hero raises to $5.32, BTN folds

Results: $10.89 pot ($0.49 rake)
Final Board: 9

6

6

8

Hero mucked T

T

and won $10.40 ($5.13 net)
BTN mucked and lost (-$5.27 net)

Do we like this small check raise here or should we just lead out or continue to check call his aggro ass down?
My thinking was a bit confused here by his preflop less than a minraise which at these stakes is often just a pot sweetner from a bad player with a premium. I don't remember seeing it from him at the table before this hand and I was a little wary here and tried to clarify after picking up some more equity with the gutshot, he could also have a ton of draws here that we can charge a bit extra. Was intending to bet/fold to a raise on the end here with pretty much any card.

 

[Ian the Fish]

Poker Stars, $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 9 Players

SB: $25 (100 bb)
BB: $26.14 (104.6 bb)
UTG+1: $25 (100 bb)
UTG+2: $12.04 (48.2 bb)
Hero (MP1): $32.38 (129.5 bb)
MP2: $7.19 (28.8 bb)
MP3: $25.02 (100.1 bb)
CO: $25 (100 bb)
BTN: $12.02 (48.1 bb) VPIP: 63, PFR: 33, 3B: 14, AF: 3.5, Hands: 27

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with T

T

2 folds, Hero raises to $0.75, 3 folds, BTN raises to $1.25, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.50

Flop: ($2.85) 9

6

6

(2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $1.36, Hero calls $1.36

Turn: ($5.57) 8

(2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $2.66, Hero raises to $5.32, BTN folds

Results: $10.89 pot ($0.49 rake)
Final Board: 9

6

6

8

Hero mucked T

T

and won $10.40 ($5.13 net)
BTN mucked and lost (-$5.27 net)

Do we like this small check raise here or should we just lead out or continue to check call his aggro ass down?
My thinking was a bit confused here by his preflop less than a minraise which at these stakes is often just a pot sweetner from a bad player with a premium. I don't remember seeing it from him at the table before this hand and I was a little wary here and tried to clarify after picking up some more equity with the gutshot. Was intending to bet/fold to a raise on the end here with pretty much any card.

I like the XR only given this specific outcome, haha. I would have played it exactly as you did until the turn, where the board is a bit too wet for my comfort zone.

I would have bet on the turn, hoping he folds. I like the check / call on the flop though, as you give him some rope for a typical c-bet w/ 2 overs (which he most likely had).

If you bet on the turn, instead of checking, you can have a clearer read with regards to his holding. XR is more aggressive, yet is scarier if he flats (I think it's a clear fold to a re-raise on the turn).

I don't think you played it poorly, I would simply play it differently, though, hoping for the same outcome.

 

[Figaroo2]

Yeah, that first hand, what decent player at these stakes is CR there with anything for value. Ubber dry... just looks like obvious BS, so you're never folding. I'm not sure what your bold statement is about though.Second hand you can def be beat, and last hand is a little more tricky. Very player depends on that one, but usually you're going to lose some money.

Lots of players do this at these stakes, they have value and they just bet/raise regardless of the board and that leads onto the bolded part. A lot of the flop raises I found in the review were still on dry boards, in fact if anything even more so.
This is clearly a very stake dependant issue. At the lower levels with ABC passives I'm suggesting just get out of their way when they raise the dry flop.

 

[Aces2w1n]

Poker Stars, $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 9 Players

SB: $25 (100 bb)
BB: $26.14 (104.6 bb)
UTG+1: $25 (100 bb)
UTG+2: $12.04 (48.2 bb)
Hero (MP1): $32.38 (129.5 bb)
MP2: $7.19 (28.8 bb)
MP3: $25.02 (100.1 bb)
CO: $25 (100 bb)
BTN: $12.02 (48.1 bb) VPIP: 63, PFR: 33, 3B: 14, AF: 3.5, Hands: 27

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with T

T

2 folds, Hero raises to $0.75, 3 folds, BTN raises to $1.25, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.50

Flop: ($2.85) 9

6

6

(2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $1.36, Hero calls $1.36

Turn: ($5.57) 8

(2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $2.66, Hero raises to $5.32, BTN folds

Results: $10.89 pot ($0.49 rake)
Final Board: 9

6

6

8

Hero mucked T

T

and won $10.40 ($5.13 net)
BTN mucked and lost (-$5.27 net)

Do we like this small check raise here or should we just lead out or continue to check call his aggro ass down?
My thinking was a bit confused here by his preflop less than a minraise which at these stakes is often just a pot sweetner from a bad player with a premium. I don't remember seeing it from him at the table before this hand and I was a little wary here and tried to clarify after picking up some more equity with the gutshot, he could also have a ton of draws here that we can charge a bit extra. Was intending to bet/fold to a raise on the end here with pretty much any card.

I hope you noted that he double barrells
10nl they bet half and check turn.. which is free money

check raises really doesnt accomplish anything... hes a weak player and he either has Ax and missed or has JJ QQ KK AA

he isnt going to fold better. and if he calls then what fold or shove rivers? he could have a sticky top pair.

if u think he shove bluffs turn could be huge ev tho

also ive noticed a lot of these players and they are huge variance what type do these guys fall under?

 

[Thinker_145]

This is just for the lulz. I was at the end of the session just relaxing and not paying full attention. When the river comes I have no idea what has actually happened and desperately looking for a check and had that happened I would 100% insta check back for an epic lulz. Had the river bet been a little larger I would have probably insta mucked and would have never known what I just did. But because the bet is not so huge I am just thinking if there is any reason to look him up here? I still didn't actually figure it out but then I caught a glimpse of the hand strength text at the bottom and was like OMG.

iPoker - €0.20 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BB: 106.6 BB (VPIP: 18.45, PFR: 16.50, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 107)
UTG: 100 BB (VPIP: 20.67, PFR: 11.78, 3Bet Preflop: 3.08, Hands: 7,438)
CO: 62.35 BB (VPIP: 70.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 20)
Hero (BTN): 131.95 BB
SB: 124.25 BB (VPIP: 23.56, PFR: 17.09, 3Bet Preflop: 5.76, Hands: 19,521)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 9:club: T:club:

fold, CO calls 1 BB, Hero calls 1 BB, SB calls 0.5 BB, BB checks

Flop: (4 BB, 4 players) J:club: 7:club: 3:club:
SB bets 1.2 BB, fold, fold, Hero raises to 6.8 BB, SB calls 5.6 BB

Turn: (17.6 BB, 2 players) T:diamond:
SB checks, Hero bets 15.8 BB, SB calls 15.8 BB

River: (49.2 BB, 2 players) 8:club:
SB bets 23 BB, Hero raises to 108.35 BB, SB calls 77.65 BB

Hero shows 9:club: T:club: (Straight Flush, Jack High)
(Pre 39%, Flop 73%, Turn 86%)
SB shows A:club: J:heart: (Flush, Ace High)
(Pre 61%, Flop 27%, Turn 14%)
Hero wins 243.2 BB

 

[John A]

This is just for the lulz. I was at the end of the session just relaxing and not paying full attention. When the river comes I have no idea what has actually happened and desperately looking for a check and had that happened I would 100% insta check back for an epic lulz. Had the river bet been a little larger I would have probably insta mucked and would have never known what I just did. But because the bet is not so huge I am just thinking if there is any reason to look him up here? I still didn't actually figure it out but then I caught a glimpse of the hand strength text at the bottom and was like OMG.

iPoker - €0.20 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BB: 106.6 BB (VPIP: 18.45, PFR: 16.50, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 107)
UTG: 100 BB (VPIP: 20.67, PFR: 11.78, 3Bet Preflop: 3.08, Hands: 7,438)
CO: 62.35 BB (VPIP: 70.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 20)
Hero (BTN): 131.95 BB
SB: 124.25 BB (VPIP: 23.56, PFR: 17.09, 3Bet Preflop: 5.76, Hands: 19,521)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 9♣ T♣

fold, CO calls 1 BB, Hero calls 1 BB, SB calls 0.5 BB, BB checks

Flop: (4 BB, 4 players) J♣ 7♣ 3♣
SB bets 1.2 BB, fold, fold, Hero raises to 6.8 BB, SB calls 5.6 BB

Turn: (17.6 BB, 2 players) T♦
SB checks, Hero bets 15.8 BB, SB calls 15.8 BB

River: (49.2 BB, 2 players) 8♣
SB bets 23 BB, Hero raises to 108.35 BB, SB calls 77.65 BB

Hero shows 9♣ T♣ (Straight Flush, Jack High)
(Pre 39%, Flop 73%, Turn 86%)
SB shows A♣ J♥ (Flush, Ace High)
(Pre 61%, Flop 27%, Turn 14%)
Hero wins 243.2 BB

Thanks giving surprises. Always nice to run into.

 

[John A]

Lots of players do this at these stakes, they have value and they just bet/raise regardless of the board and that leads onto the bolded part. A lot of the flop raises I found in the review were still on dry boards, in fact if anything even more so.
This is clearly a very stake dependant issue. At the lower levels with ABC passives I'm suggesting just get out of their way when they raise the dry flop.

Well, this depends on how much of a thinking player you're against. Even at the micro stakes, you'll have guys who are thinking about board textures. You just need to know how and when to separate those guys out. It seems like a lot of NITs don't always consider this when they have big hands, and even though you think they'd slow play a lot since they don't give much action, they will CR on dry boards w/ big hands.

And of course, once you move beyond micro stakes, then this applies very squarely.

 

[John A]

Poker Stars, $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 9 Players

SB: $25 (100 bb)
BB: $26.14 (104.6 bb)
UTG+1: $25 (100 bb)
UTG+2: $12.04 (48.2 bb)
Hero (MP1): $32.38 (129.5 bb)
MP2: $7.19 (28.8 bb)
MP3: $25.02 (100.1 bb)
CO: $25 (100 bb)
BTN: $12.02 (48.1 bb) VPIP: 63, PFR: 33, 3B: 14, AF: 3.5, Hands: 27

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with T

T

2 folds, Hero raises to $0.75, 3 folds, BTN raises to $1.25, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.50

Flop: ($2.85) 9

6

6

(2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $1.36, Hero calls $1.36

Turn: ($5.57) 8

(2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $2.66, Hero raises to $5.32, BTN folds

Results: $10.89 pot ($0.49 rake)
Final Board: 9

6

6

8

Hero mucked T

T

and won $10.40 ($5.13 net)
BTN mucked and lost (-$5.27 net)

Do we like this small check raise here or should we just lead out or continue to check call his aggro ass down?
My thinking was a bit confused here by his preflop less than a minraise which at these stakes is often just a pot sweetner from a bad player with a premium. I don't remember seeing it from him at the table before this hand and I was a little wary here and tried to clarify after picking up some more equity with the gutshot, he could also have a ton of draws here that we can charge a bit extra. Was intending to bet/fold to a raise on the end here with pretty much any card.

I like just leading the turn since most players won't bet here. He's aggressive of course, but you have a hand that if you c/c will create some tough river decisions. I'd tend to like to have a slightly better hand to just purely call someone down like this all the way. But it's not a horrible strategy either. Leading the turn is also for value in this case as well and can lead to higher EV when this guy won't fold out some bad hands that he 3-bet and should be folding.

The CR isn't horrible either only because of his stack size. You're CR and calling. But if we were 100bbs+, I'm not a fan at all.

 

[skaterick]

I dont agree with Figaroo's analysis . you can win a big pot after ajx or kjx too . that seems more likely than 'set over set '.

 

[Ian the Fish]

Sure. Over 447 hands:

VPIP: 24
PFR: 15
Total 3-bet %: 5.1

Have you had the time to work on a video format review on the hand, John? I really loved the last one you did.

 

[jashiggs]

Anyone up for a sweat session today / Tuesday? I'd be available anywhere from 8PM - 11PM GMT...

I would love to get involved in something like this. I have absolutely no experience in this and to begin with i wouldnt mind being involved and just observing/ discussing with you guys as i feel there would be a huge benefit in that and is something i would like to get into more regularly. I understand there are a couple of you that work and help each other out and i am a complete noob in this department so fully appreiate if you would not want me to hinder anything you have going on thats working for you. Just food for thought.

 

[Figaroo2]

I would love to get involved in something like this. I have absolutely no experience in this and to begin with i wouldnt mind being involved and just observing/ discussing with you guys as i feel there would be a huge benefit in that and is something i would like to get into more regularly. I understand there are a couple of you that work and help each other out and i am a complete noob in this department so fully appreiate if you would not want me to hinder anything you have going on thats working for you. Just food for thought.

You are most welcome, I've sent you a PM with my skype details.