Polished Poker Vol. I Study Group

[Alucard]

checking turn bad??


pokerstars - $0.05 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4: http://www.pokertracker.com

BTN: 49.4 BB (VPIP: 50.00, PFR: 50.00, 3Bet Preflop: 100.00, hands: 2)
SB: 360.6 BB (VPIP: 23.33, PFR: 18.89, 3Bet Preflop: 5.88, Hands: 93)
BB: 108.2 BB (VPIP: 4.55, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 22)
UTG: 89 BB
Hero (MP): 270.8 BB
CO: 72.2 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: -, Hands: 1)

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has Kc Ks
fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, fold, fold, SB calls 2.6 BB, fold

Flop : (7 BB, 2 players) Qc 7c 4d
SB checks, Hero bets 4.4 BB, SB raises to 13 BB, Hero raises to 31 BB, SB calls 18 BB

Turn : (69 BB, 2 players) Ah
SB checks, Hero checks

River : (69 BB, 2 players) 5h
SB bets 41 BB,

 

[Figaroo2]

PokerStars - $0.05 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
BB: 101.4 BB (VPIP: 38.10, PFR: 28.57, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00,
Hero (CO): 124.2

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has 9c 9s
fold, fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, fold, fold, BB calls 2 BB

Flop : (6.4 BB, 2 players) 5d 9d 6c
BB checks, Hero bets 4 BB, BB raises to 11.2 BB,

38/28 and likes to see flops but hasn't 3bet.
I'd take him as passive and a flop raise suggests he has hit the flop pretty hard here.
78s is obviously there, 78os might be stretching it even for him. There are so many other flush straight combo draws out there that you are probably ahead of his range at this point and even if we aren't we still have the draw to the winning boat.
If I was out of position id certainly 3bet the flop and look to gii.
When we have position like this we could still raise or we can flat his raise and evaluate the turn especially if we were deeper.
Here if the turn boats us he's going to be less inclined to stack off on the turn and are we going to be happy if the flush card or a 7 or 8 comes and he shoves not really.
At 100bb I think it's probably best and easiest overall to 3bet flop. If the money goes in and he shows 87 and we lose its a cooler, we are hardly ever folding here whatever happens so best to gii on flop whilst he's drawing more often than not.

 

[Figaroo2]

77 on the river bet what you'd be prepared to call if you were going to check call. I'd make it in the range 20-28bb depending on how passive or aggro he is. Here 27bb.We should bet though as we want to get calls off of all the 2pair hands he'd likely check behind. If he raises its a 9 and we have to find the fold.

 

[Alucard]

77 on the river bet what you'd be prepared to call if you were going to check call. I'd make it in the range 20-28bb depending on how passive or aggro he is. Here 27bb.We should bet though as we want to get calls off of all the 2pair hands he'd likely check behind. If he raises its a 9 and we have to find the fold.

didn't post a 77 hand. It's the 107s I think

 

[frnandoh]

I want it

How do I make to get it?:top:

 

[Figaroo2]

didn't post a 77 hand. It's the 107s I think

My bad, my eyes are getting worse..... So now we just have a weakish 2pair. The same thinking applies, can we get a call from worse? And the weaker the hand we target for calls the smaller id bet.
If not check call/fold depending on sizing.

 

[Alucard]

3bet pre??? Or fine?? fold to check raise???

PokerStars - $0.05 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4: http://www.pokertracker.com

BTN: 90.4 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 3)
SB: 134.6 BB (VPIP: 21.88, PFR: 15.63, 3Bet Preflop: 4.35, Hands: 66)
BB: 276.4 BB (VPIP: 23.53, PFR: 17.65, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 17)
UTG: 216 BB (VPIP: 28.57, PFR: 14.29, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 15)
MP: 100 BB (VPIP: 26.98, PFR: 22.22, 3Bet Preflop: 10.00, Hands: 67)
Hero (CO): 386.8 BB

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has 5c Ac
fold, MP raises to 2.4 BB, Hero calls 2.4 BB, fold, fold, BB calls 1.4 BB

Flop : (7.6 BB, 3 players) Ah Td 8h
BB checks, MP checks, Hero bets 3 BB, BB raises to 10 BB, fold,

 

[Alucard]

3bet folding vs a 3% 3bettor?

PokerStars - $0.05 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4: http://www.pokertracker.com

Hero (BTN): 400.6 BB
SB: 120 BB (VPIP: 19.14, PFR: 15.43, 3Bet Preflop: 5.97, Hands: 166)
BB: 100 BB (VPIP: 23.40, PFR: 17.87, 3Bet Preflop: 3.45, Hands: 243)
UTG: 89.6 BB (VPIP: 38.89, PFR: 5.56, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 19)
MP: 182.6 BB (VPIP: 22.00, PFR: 17.20, 3Bet Preflop: 1.11, Hands: 253)
CO: 165 BB (VPIP: 33.33, PFR: 33.33, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 6)

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has Qd Qs
fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, fold, BB raises to 10 BB, Hero raises to 26 BB, BB raises to 100 BB and is all-in, fold

BB wins 52.4 BB

 

[John A]

3bet folding vs a 3% 3bettor?

PokerStars - $0.05 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4: http://www.pokertracker.com

Hero (BTN): 400.6 BB
SB: 120 BB (VPIP: 19.14, PFR: 15.43, 3Bet Preflop: 5.97, Hands: 166)
BB: 100 BB (VPIP: 23.40, PFR: 17.87, 3Bet Preflop: 3.45, Hands: 243)
UTG: 89.6 BB (VPIP: 38.89, PFR: 5.56, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 19)
MP: 182.6 BB (VPIP: 22.00, PFR: 17.20, 3Bet Preflop: 1.11, Hands: 253)
CO: 165 BB (VPIP: 33.33, PFR: 33.33, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 6)

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has Qd Qs
fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, fold, BB raises to 10 BB, Hero raises to 26 BB, BB raises to 100 BB and is all-in, fold

BB wins 52.4 BB

Did you mean 4-bet folding? No, you can't 4-bet fold here. Even just QQ+/AK shove you're 40%. Add in JJ or another hand and you'll be flipping. Not being results oriented here, but in today's games I'd be calling in position a ton w/ QQ. Probably 80/20.

 

[Alucard]

Did you mean 4-bet folding? No, you can't 4-bet fold here. Even just QQ+/AK shove you're 40%. Add in JJ or another hand and you'll be flipping. Not being results oriented here, but in today's games I'd be calling in position a ton w/ QQ. Probably 80/20.

what things do you consider when folding that 20%?

 

[Alucard]

Is shoving correct? Cause Aces, kings aren't going anywhere

Spoiler

partypoker - $0.05 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4: http://www.pokertracker.com

BTN: 100.4 BB (VPIP: 40.00, PFR: 40.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 5)
SB: 49 BB (VPIP: 14.16, PFR: 12.79, 3Bet Preflop: 4.55, Hands: 224)
BB: 100 BB
Hero (UTG): 107.8 BB
MP: 106 BB (VPIP: 21.82, PFR: 16.25, 3Bet Preflop: 5.95, Hands: 699)
CO: 128 BB (VPIP: 28.29, PFR: 22.44, 3Bet Preflop: 9.59, Hands: 213)

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has Js Ts
Hero raises to 3 BB, fold, CO raises to 9 BB, fold, fold, fold, Hero calls 6 BB

Flop : (19.4 BB, 2 players) 9h Ks 8s
Hero checks, CO bets 10.2 BB, Hero raises to 34 BB, CO raises to 119 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 64.8 BB and is all-in

Turn : (217 BB, 2 players) 4c

River : (217 BB, 2 players) Kd

Hero shows Js Ts (One Pair, Kings)
(Pre 21%, Flop 52%, Turn 32%)

CO shows Ad As (Two Pair, Aces and Kings)
(Pre 79%, Flop 48%, Turn 68%)

CO wins 20.2 BB
CO wins 206.2 BB

http://www.pokerstrategy.com
Board: 9hKs8s
equity Win Tie
MP2 52.76% 52.76% 0.00% { JsTs }
CO 47.24% 47.24% 0.00% { KK+, AKs, AKo }

 

[Figaroo2]

JTs I'd fold to the 3bet. He looks decent from stats. As played I just call flop and probably turn as well with implied on most normal sizings.
If a non spade Q or 7 arrives you'll get paid.
Can bluff shove first on end sometimes.
You raise he shoves is not the most desirable outcome. This might just be my passive lines though so Interested to hear Johns opinion on this.

 

[Alucard]

JTs I'd fold to the 3bet. He looks decent from stats.As played I just call flop and probably turn as well with implied on most normal sizings.
If a non spade Q or 7 arrives you'll get paid.
Can bluff shove first on end sometimes.
You raise he shoves is not the most desirable outcome.

??
He is playing 28/22/9. Very loose.


I did this because I remember John mentioning shoving is better here realising your equity at this spot. Maybe he can shed some light

 

[Figaroo2]

??
He is playing 28/22/9. Very loose.
I did this because I remember John mentioning shoving is better here realising your equity at this spot. Maybe he can shed some light

Well clearly it's not bad to shove against a player this loose. I'd caveat he is raising your UTG open so he might be stronger than usual.
But 28/22/9 6max indicates to me someone who knows what they are doing, I wouldn't choose to play OOP against 28/22/9 in a 3bet pot with JTs, those are the sorts of 6 max stats John used to play to. (before he had to nit up by 6%...no body folds anymore...lol)
It's not ultra loose even I can get up to 28/22 playing suitably wide from the button and CO.

The problem with high variance play is how well you cope with losing a few stacks. If you are prone to tilt from losing a few stacks its probably better EV overall to take the lower variance line than to push hard on marginal edges. No point losing more through tilt.

 

[John A]

what things do you consider when folding that 20%?

I'm not folding. I'm 4-betting ~20%, calling ~80% when in position.

 

[John A]

Is shoving correct? Cause Aces, kings aren't going anywhere

Spoiler

partypoker - $0.05 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4: http://www.pokertracker.com

BTN: 100.4 BB (VPIP: 40.00, PFR: 40.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 5)
SB: 49 BB (VPIP: 14.16, PFR: 12.79, 3Bet Preflop: 4.55, Hands: 224)
BB: 100 BB
Hero (UTG): 107.8 BB
MP: 106 BB (VPIP: 21.82, PFR: 16.25, 3Bet Preflop: 5.95, Hands: 699)
CO: 128 BB (VPIP: 28.29, PFR: 22.44, 3Bet Preflop: 9.59, Hands: 213)

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has Js Ts
Hero raises to 3 BB, fold, CO raises to 9 BB, fold, fold, fold, Hero calls 6 BB

Flop : (19.4 BB, 2 players) 9h Ks 8s
Hero checks, CO bets 10.2 BB, Hero raises to 34 BB, CO raises to 119 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 64.8 BB and is all-in

Turn : (217 BB, 2 players) 4c

River : (217 BB, 2 players) Kd

Hero shows Js Ts (One Pair, Kings)
(Pre 21%, Flop 52%, Turn 32%)

CO shows Ad As (Two Pair, Aces and Kings)
(Pre 79%, Flop 48%, Turn 68%)

CO wins 20.2 BB
CO wins 206.2 BB

http://www.pokerstrategy.com
Board: 9hKs8s
Equity Win Tie
MP2 52.76% 52.76% 0.00% { JsTs }
CO 47.24% 47.24% 0.00% { KK+, AKs, AKo }

The range you put in there isn't correct. He will 3-bet 98, 99 and 88 as well. He might also call it off w/ QQ. Regardless, you're going to be close enough to ~46-50% equity that getting it in is never wrong.

 

[Figaroo2]

Turn action suggestions

This hand came up during tonights sweat where there was some disagreement over the turn action

Pacific, $0.10/$0.20 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 8 Players

SB: $23.41 (117.1 bb)VPIP: 17, PFR: 15, 3B: 7, AF: 2.1, Hands: 2345
Hero (BB): $20 (100 bb)
CO: $6.90 (34.5 bb)


Preflop: Hero is BB with Q

Q

4 folds, CO calls $0.20, BTN calls $0.20, SB raises to $1, Hero raises to $3.40, 2 folds, SB calls $2.40

Flop: ($7.20) 5

K

Q

(2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $4, SB calls $4

Turn: ($15.20) 2

(2 players)
SB checks, Hero ? (we have $12.60 behind)

It's such a static board could we consider a turn check here to try and assist getting called a little lighter on the end? How about a really small bet like $2-3 to try and keep him in and then shove river?
Or do we just shove knowing that AK probably can't fold?

Spoiler

bets $12.60 and is all-in

Spoiler

, SB folds

Results: $15.20 pot ($0.76 rake)
Final Board: 5

K

Q

2

SB mucked and lost (-$7.40 net)
Hero mucked Q

Q

and won $14.44 ($7.04 net)

 

[John A]

Yeah, considering stack size, I like a really small turn bet to keep under pairs in, and to setup an easier river shove. I recommend looking at these dry spots like this. There's no river card I'm folding on, so why risk scaring off my opponent? Small turn bet puts him in a tough spot that sets up good odds on a river call. If he isn't calling both of those, he wasn't calling a turn shove any ways. So worse case is you squeeze a little more out on the turn that you weren't getting from the shove.

 

[Alucard]

So I've been thinking about how my progress has been so far@ 5NL, & not to my surprise I'm not doing very well. I still can't seem to find a steady slope to continuously climb on for a while & it keeps going up n down.
The biggest disappointment is that I've played 200k hands at this level and still stuck.
So fig asked me to seek out your advice John. So here goes.

I'll post both graphs & positional stats.

Pokerstars Zoom

Spoiler

https://drive.google.com/open?id=14ai2On07b7ZvP7aQ8lBI8j8G96EM3-69

partypoker Fast Forward

Spoiler

https://drive.google.com/open?id=15gn7TmRa0hdgRnFq5He4b8PvtkA2IC6g


The obvious thing that I can see is that I lose way too much from the blinds. I suspect this is due to my over aggression bluff raising to take it down but taking it too far.

 

[John A]

I'll take a look at your numbers in a bit, but just from the graph, your red line needs to flatten out a bit more. It's just a sign you're not bluffing in the right spots.

Also, my first piece of advice is... read polished poker.
Second is, stop playing fast poker. Play regular tables, and start making reads and apply that info.

Try those two things first. I'll comment more when I have more time.

 

[Figaroo2]

Just bumping the thread hoping John can spare the time so feedback more on Alucard's stats. As I'm primarily full ring I'm not quite as sure of the best ranges for 6 max. But looking at these again I'd suggest you need to play maybe 10% more from the btn and start playing the BB with a similar mindset to the way you are playing in the SB. Your bb AF is so low it's difficult to see these bluffs you are talking about.
The up then down nature of the graphs suggest you have been losing confidence. Alu how are you doing overall since we talked about the BB issues?

 

[Alucard]

Things should be better since I'm doing well.
At least my red line is + or break even. So aggression should be high up.I'll post yesterday's stats

Spoiler

positional stats
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1IgdIMsJk6NPyInd1XMwDaSKFDhJ5FoBN

 

[John A]

Things should be better since I'm doing well.
At least my red line is + or break even. So aggression should be high up.I'll post yesterday's stats

Spoiler

positional stats
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1IgdIMsJk6NPyInd1XMwDaSKFDhJ5FoBN

It looks much better. I'd still get your 3-bet% up from the CO and BTN. You want to be a beast from those two positions. But aggression looks much better. Much better graph!

 

[Figaroo2]

flop decision V maniac

Maniac time what are you doing on the flop here?
poker stars, $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 8 Players

SB: $30.26 (121 bb)VPIP: 51, PFR: 24, 3B: 17, AF: 5.3, Hands: 51
BB: $25 (100 bb)
UTG+2: $41.39 (165.6 bb)
Hero (MP1): $36.56 (146.2 bb)
MP2: $25 (100 bb)
MP3: $29.29 (117.2 bb)
CO: $40.38 (161.5 bb)
BTN: $42.53 (170.1 bb)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with K

A

UTG+2 folds, Hero raises to $0.75, 4 folds, SB raises to $1.75, BB folds, Hero raises to $4.50, SB calls $2.75

Flop: ($9.25) K

J

9

(2 players)
SB bets $4.42, Hero?

 

[John A]

Yeah, if not against a maniac then just call pre. But 4-bet is fine against this guy. I'd just call. 120 bbs in a 4-bet pot. You notice anything about his bet sizing before? Sometimes these kinds of guys have really obvious betting tells.