Polished Poker Vol. I Study Group

[Figaroo2]

river sizing?

Pacific, $0.15/$0.30 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 8 Players

SB: $30 (100 bb)VPIP: 20, PFR: 17, 3B: 16, AF: 3.0, Hands: 147
BB: $39.75 (132.5 bb)
UTG+2: $12.82 (42.7 bb)
Hero (MP1): $30.45 (101.5 bb)
MP2: $35.61 (118.7 bb)
MP3: $12.62 (42.1 bb)
CO: $34.45 (114.8 bb)
BTN: $20.26 (67.5 bb)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with A♥ A♣
UTG+2 folds, Hero raises to $0.90, 4 folds, SB raises to $3.60, BB folds, Hero calls $2.70
Calling here as I think a 4 bet just folds out too much of his wide 3bet range, (I was playing tight) he is also aggro and likely to bet several streets.

Flop: ($7.50) 3♥ 7♥ 4♥ (2 players)
SB bets $2.35, Hero calls $2.35

Turn: ($12.20) 3♦ (2 players)
SB bets $5.79, Hero calls $5.79 (jam?)

River: ($23.78) 6♦ (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets ?

I'm inclined to jam river here, looking for calls from KK QQ, I think both these hands call it off a good perecentage of the time maybe KK 90% and QQ 80% of the time and JJ calls maybe 30%, I think 88 99 TT probably folds to a jam.
But I also like a smaller bet say around 5$ that allows him to call if he has 88- JJ or the chance to aggro spew his last $18 with his air. he might even reshove KK. seems close, any preference?

 

[John A]

Yes, jam turn. As played, jam river. please. He's not going to bluff jam on your w/ a $5 bet, and he may call lighter than you think based on how the hand played.

 

[John A]

Have you guys checked these out yet?

http://drivehud.com/blog/video-category/drivehud-free-poker-training-videos/

 

[John A]

Just downloaded! Thankyou.

Yw... spread it far and wide.

 

[Alucard]

Have you guys checked these out yet?

http://drivehud.com/blog/video-category/drivehud-free-poker-training-videos/

will check these out the first thing next month. no bandwidth left for this month

 

[John A]

Yeah, there's a good collection now. I'm about to post another one that you guys should learn a good bit from. I'll post it tmw.

 

[John A]

This is a really good new video. Is A2s, 98s, or 54s the higher EV 3-bet on the button versus a cutoff open raise?

http://drivehud.com/blog/aiovg_videos/which-hand-is-the-better-3-bet-on-the-button-a2s-98s-or-54s/

 

[Alucard]

SB: 290.2 BB (VPIP: 30.00, PFR: 25.00, 3Bet Preflop: 11.11, Hands: 40)
Hero (BB): 190.9 BB
UTG: 297.7 BB (VPIP: 65.22, PFR: 17.39, 3Bet Preflop: 9.09, Hands: 24)
CO: 645.9 BB (VPIP: 22.71, PFR: 16.99, 3Bet Preflop: 10.00, Hands: 213)
BTN: 83 BB (VPIP: 16.00, PFR: 8.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 26)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has As Kd
fold, CO raises to 3 BB, fold, SB calls 2.5 BB, Hero raises to 16 BB, CO calls 13 BB, SB calls 13 BB

Flop : (48 BB, 3 players) Qs 2s 6s
SB checks, Hero checks, CO bets 39 BB, fold, Hero calls 39 BB

Turn : (126 BB, 2 players) 3s
Hero checks, CO checks

River : (126 BB, 2 players) 2d
Hero checks, CO bets 90 BB, Hero calls 90 BB

I'm very much putting him on QQ maybe KsK, but we can't really fold here so I guess this is fine?
Didn't like cbetting flop that much since it's deep but even 100BB eff I like checking

 

[John A]

Flop is fine, and this deep, river c/c is fine as well at these stakes. His range is clearly QQ/66/KKs/bluffs. There's really not much else you can do here. If you were 100bbs deep you're obviously shoving river since you'd have under 1/2 pot left.

 

[Alucard]

pokerstars - $4 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4: http://www.pokertracker.com

SB: 250 BB (VPIP: 30.69, PFR: 17.46, 3Bet Preflop: 4.55, Hands: 192)
BB: 154.5 BB (VPIP: 24.19, PFR: 11.29, 3Bet Preflop: 3.85, Hands: 62)
Hero (UTG): 98.5 BB
MP: 131.75 BB (VPIP: 56.76, PFR: 16.22, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 41)
CO: 97.75 BB (VPIP: 23.08, PFR: 17.31, 3Bet Preflop: 14.29, Hands: 53)
BTN: 222 BB (VPIP: 39.23, PFR: 21.54, 3Bet Preflop: 6.12, Hands: 135)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has Ad Kh
Hero raises to 3 BB, MP calls 3 BB, CO raises to 11.5 BB, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 26 BB, fold, CO calls 14.5 BB

Flop : (56.5 BB, 2 players) 2d Jd Tc
Hero checks, CO checks

Turn : (56.5 BB, 2 players) Kd
Hero checks, CO checks

River : (56.5 BB, 2 players) Jc
Hero bets 22.25 BB, CO calls 22.25 BB


120NL
Can we just jam flop with Ad?

 

[vegasivanov]

Here late and playing mostly live but interested nevertheless, and will read and participate without much expectation [emoji28]

 

[John A]

PokerStars - $4 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4: http://www.pokertracker.com

SB: 250 BB (VPIP: 30.69, PFR: 17.46, 3Bet Preflop: 4.55, Hands: 192)
BB: 154.5 BB (VPIP: 24.19, PFR: 11.29, 3Bet Preflop: 3.85, Hands: 62)
Hero (UTG): 98.5 BB
MP: 131.75 BB (VPIP: 56.76, PFR: 16.22, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 41)
CO: 97.75 BB (VPIP: 23.08, PFR: 17.31, 3Bet Preflop: 14.29, Hands: 53)
BTN: 222 BB (VPIP: 39.23, PFR: 21.54, 3Bet Preflop: 6.12, Hands: 135)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has Ad Kh
Hero raises to 3 BB, MP calls 3 BB, CO raises to 11.5 BB, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 26 BB, fold, CO calls 14.5 BB

Flop : (56.5 BB, 2 players) 2d Jd Tc
Hero checks, CO checks

Turn : (56.5 BB, 2 players) Kd
Hero checks, CO checks

River : (56.5 BB, 2 players) Jc
Hero bets 22.25 BB, CO calls 22.25 BB


120NL
Can we just jam flop with Ad?

No, really as a bluff you'd want to not have the Ad in your hand, since this will increase the odds your opponent can call w/ a diamond draw equity wise.

Also, I'd bet the turn. If your opponent is checking that flop, then their range is capped at that point, and your turn bet is for value. As played, ~1/2 on river is fine.

 

[Alucard]

PokerStars - $2 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4: http://www.pokertracker.com

MP: 472.5 BB (VPIP: 40.63, PFR: 27.08, 3Bet Preflop: 20.00, Hands: 194)
CO: 122 BB (VPIP: 40.19, PFR: 17.22, 3Bet Preflop: 2.50, Hands: 215)
BTN: 133.5 BB (VPIP: 20.52, PFR: 15.57, 3Bet Preflop: 9.01, Hands: 951)
Hero (SB): 228 BB
BB: 100 BB (VPIP: 22.27, PFR: 18.49, 3Bet Preflop: 8.18, Hands: 456)
UTG: 98 BB (VPIP: 29.71, PFR: 21.50, 3Bet Preflop: 11.64, Hands: 425)

Hero posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has Ks Js
UTG raises to 3 BB, fold, CO calls 3 BB, fold, Hero raises to 15 BB, fold, UTG calls 12 BB, fold

Flop : (34 BB, 2 players) 8d Kc 2c
Hero checks, UTG bets 17 BB, Hero calls 17 BB

Turn : (68 BB, 2 players) 6s
Hero checks, UTG bets 29.5 BB, Hero raises to 118 BB, UTG calls 36.5 BB and is all-in


So we were having a discussion about this hand in the group. Bruce was saying Hero should check call turn & hope to get checked back on river.
But his spr would be quite low on river with that sizing there's no point in calling so I intended to jam.
Anyone hardly thought of folding tho.

His wtsd 22, wsd -77
a bit too loose stats but I've somehow marked him as a fish

 

[Alucard]

btw watched almost all of the drive hud vids.
Pretty good but I didn't enjoy the gto vids that much

 

[Figaroo2]

On the KJs hand, if he were decent you can fold turn facing 2 barrels in a 3bet pot v utg range. But if he was fishy and can over value zomething worse I might call and see if he wants to check it down. I'd deffo fold to a river bet regardless of Spr.
I just dont like the turn jam and never would personally as im mostly getting called by better.

 

[John A]

PokerStars - $2 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4: http://www.pokertracker.com

MP: 472.5 BB (VPIP: 40.63, PFR: 27.08, 3Bet Preflop: 20.00, Hands: 194)
CO: 122 BB (VPIP: 40.19, PFR: 17.22, 3Bet Preflop: 2.50, Hands: 215)
BTN: 133.5 BB (VPIP: 20.52, PFR: 15.57, 3Bet Preflop: 9.01, Hands: 951)
Hero (SB): 228 BB
BB: 100 BB (VPIP: 22.27, PFR: 18.49, 3Bet Preflop: 8.18, Hands: 456)
UTG: 98 BB (VPIP: 29.71, PFR: 21.50, 3Bet Preflop: 11.64, Hands: 425)

Hero posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has Ks Js
UTG raises to 3 BB, fold, CO calls 3 BB, fold, Hero raises to 15 BB, fold, UTG calls 12 BB, fold

Flop : (34 BB, 2 players) 8d Kc 2c
Hero checks, UTG bets 17 BB, Hero calls 17 BB

Turn : (68 BB, 2 players) 6s
Hero checks, UTG bets 29.5 BB, Hero raises to 118 BB, UTG calls 36.5 BB and is all-in


So we were having a discussion about this hand in the group. Bruce was saying Hero should check call turn & hope to get checked back on river.
But his spr would be quite low on river with that sizing there's no point in calling so I intended to jam.
Anyone hardly thought of folding tho.

His wtsd 22, wsd -77
a bit too loose stats but I've somehow marked him as a fish

Why were you squeezing to begin with? This isn't a good squeeze hand versus UTG open. You'd be better of squeezing 89, 76 etc...

Any ways, as played, you should be leading sometimes here w/ TP. Mainly leading here because if your plan is the check it down and pot control, your range is so capped and transparent. I'd lean towards a turn c/f as I'm not happy at these stakes getting it in with TP ok kicker versus this guy.

 

[John A]

btw watched almost all of the drive hud vids.
Pretty good but I didn't enjoy the gto vids that much

What didn't you like about the GTO videos?

 

[Alucard]

Why were you squeezing to begin with? This isn't a good squeeze hand versus UTG open. You'd be better of squeezing 89, 76 etc...

Any ways, as played, you should be leading sometimes here w/ TP. Mainly leading here because if your plan is the check it down and pot control, your range is so capped and transparent. I'd lean towards a turn c/f as I'm not happy at these stakes getting it in with TP ok kicker versus this guy.

I don't like flatting here with a broadway hand. So either I'm 3betting or folding.
And these are 60NL games.

What didn't you like about the GTO videos?

It seemed like he was also unsure of the right choice & learning when he was making the vids which isn't bad ofcourse. But it transffered a certain uncertainty & mistrust towards me.

 

[Figaroo2]

Why were you squeezing to begin with? This isn't a good squeeze hand versus UTG open. You'd be better of squeezing 89, 76 etc...

Any ways, as played, you should be leading sometimes here w/ TP. Mainly leading here because if your plan is the check it down and pot control, your range is so capped and transparent. I'd lean towards a turn c/f as I'm not happy at these stakes getting it in with TP ok kicker versus this guy.

John.
Would you call or fold pre here with KJs?
As played what percentage of the time are you betting flop as opposed to checking?
KJ with no bdfd appears to be a decent checking hand here as its right at the bottom of our Cat 1 bet for value hands and can act as a decent bluff catcher. I think id bet it if i had better backdoors.
Cant make my mind up with this one.

 

[John A]

I don't like flatting here with a broadway hand. So either I'm 3betting or folding.
And these are 60NL games.




It seemed like he was also unsure of the right choice & learning when he was making the vids which isn't bad ofcourse. But it transffered a certain uncertainty & mistrust towards me.

You have protection though because you are last to act and UTG has to bet into two people. So flatting there isn't bad really.

As far as the videos, would it help if I told you that I sook him out because I saw some genius in his play that I don't see w/ many players? When you're looking at some of this data w/ a GTO solver, you're not going to know everything it's going to spit back. Nobody will, but you'll have some suspicions from the start, so I think he does a good job of genuinely conveying that. Just my opinion, but for what it's worth he's a good player.

 

[John A]

John.
Would you call or fold pre here with KJs?
As played what percentage of the time are you betting flop as opposed to checking?
KJ with no bdfd appears to be a decent checking hand here as its right at the bottom of our Cat 1 bet for value hands and can act as a decent bluff catcher. I think id bet it if i had better backdoors.
Cant make my mind up with this one.

Answered that above, I'd lean towards a call because I have position on the fish, I don't want to take a chance of pushing him out (which ended up happening), and UTG has to bet into two players, so there's some protection.

If you mean that if UTG checked to us on the flop, I'm usually betting. Solvers probably have 80% bet there, maybe slightly less. And generally speaking, I bet with top pair or better unless I have some data / reason not to bet (guy is usually aggressive and I can get him to bluff 2 streets). I want a solid aggressive double barrel strategy (and triple) against my regulars that can get them to make mistakes. Mistakes are where the money is right?

Once I build history though, I start to shift gears against my regs. I want them looking at the data they have and making some bad conclusions. So then I start checking more TP and 2 pair hands because they start to think my range is air or capped with some weak made hand.

 

[John A]

Did you guys check out this video yet? Betting into capped ranges on the turn.

http://drivehud.com/blog/aiovg_videos/betting-into-capped-ranges-on-the-turn/

 

[tarabarov]

Use of Effective BB

Does anyone use effective BB (2/3 of preflop pot) when calculating stack size?

If you choose to use/not use effective BB why do you choose that method?


The reason I ask is because I see a lot of posts on here like this:

Hero has XX with 7k in chips blinds are 200/400/50 nine handed and its folded around to hero in the hijack. Hero makes is 800 and is shoved in on by a guy who covers on the BTN.

If we calculate based on BB we have 17.5BB and should probably not be opening unless we are willing to call the shove.

If we calculate based on effective BB
(9x50) + 200 + 400 = 1050 1050x(2/3) = 700
we have 10BB and should be playing push/fold.

Using the different methods to calculate BB ends up changing completely how we should play a hand in this spot. I think its an important topic that I need clarification on.

 

[Alucard]

Hero (BTN): 100 BB
SB: 238.5 BB (VPIP: 31.43, PFR: 18.57, 3Bet Preflop: 8.47, Hands: 143)
BB: 25.67 BB (VPIP: 50.00, PFR: 25.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 8)
UTG: 301.83 BB (VPIP: 39.13, PFR: 21.74, 3Bet Preflop: 8.89, Hands: 93)
CO: 309.83 BB (VPIP: 13.91, PFR: 13.04, 3Bet Preflop: 7.32, Hands: 117)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has As Ad
UTG raises to 3 BB, CO raises to 9 BB, Hero raises to 17.5 BB, fold, fold, fold, fold



200NL. UTG is a loose maniac. CO seems to be tight but a lot more 3betting from SB. Is flatting aces better than 3betting here?

 

[John A]

Does anyone use effective BB (2/3 of preflop pot) when calculating stack size?

If you choose to use/not use effective BB why do you choose that method?


The reason I ask is because I see a lot of posts on here like this:

Hero has XX with 7k in chips blinds are 200/400/50 nine handed and its folded around to hero in the hijack. Hero makes is 800 and is shoved in on by a guy who covers on the BTN.

If we calculate based on BB we have 17.5BB and should probably not be opening unless we are willing to call the shove.

If we calculate based on effective BB
(9x50) + 200 + 400 = 1050 1050x(2/3) = 700
we have 10BB and should be playing push/fold.

Using the different methods to calculate BB ends up changing completely how we should play a hand in this spot. I think its an important topic that I need clarification on.

I'm not sure what your question is. Is it, should people be using total effective stacks in tournaments? If so, the answer is yes.