The need to quantify entertainment value of poker for poker's survival [long]

[ovitoo]

porn is accessible to anyone and i don't think its the most damaging thing in the world. If parents are negligent enough with computers then its there own fault.True but I wouldn't say a child who wanders into a porn site is the product of negligent parents. These days you can't keep kids away from computers. Even phones have internet.

what exactly are garbage pickers?Ppl who don't shop at stores and get what they need from others garbage. (not garbage men or scrappers)

Insurance adjustors technically are neutral EV since everyone else would pay higher amounts if some claims weren't rejected.

Good point

 

[cardriverx]

garbage picking is not a profession.

The argument that the poker player sat their by himself, and therefore deserves whatever loses they incur is a good one but not without its counter-points. One can then say winning poker players are the same as drug dealers because no one is making the consumer buy coke. They would say.. taking money from an addicted gambler is the same as selling coke to a coke addict.

I mean it's not a terrible point and it has merit, but it will never gain any traction in a poker forum.

 

[ovitoo]

garbage picking is not a profession.

The argument that the poker player sat their by himself, and therefore deserves whatever loses they incur is a good one but not without its counter-points. One can then say winning poker players are the same as drug dealers because no one is making the consumer buy coke. They would say.. taking money from an addicted gambler is the same as selling coke to a coke addict.

I mean it's not a terrible point and it has merit, but it will never gain any traction in a poker forum.

Yea I think I got a little off topic and was just naming ppl I thought were a waste of space lol (no offense if anyone is an insurance adjuster).

Your comparison is pretty logical. I agree OP is probly in the wrong place to make this proclamation. I think there is something to be said about who is responsible for impairing someones livelihood. Ringer, fish, donkey or whoever... everyones intentions are to win others money. I don't think anything can justify putting more blame on a player who has worked harder/studied more. Do they cause more damage? Sure. That doesn't negate the fact that everyone else at the tables intentions are to do the same.

Imo most losing players can and should be able to lose what they invest without it harming them. If they can't comfortably invest and they do anyways...the blame is their own.

 

[JCgrind]

may i just say that this is a great derail btw

Was thinking that. Derailing threads like pros

 

[JCgrind]

One can then say winning poker players are the same as drug dealers because no one is making the consumer buy coke. They would say.. taking money from an addicted gambler is the same as selling coke to a coke addict.

But IMO the key difference is that the losing poker player while providing no benefit to society is simply winning money from others whom have a chance to win also, whereas the drug dealer (note that we compare to the drug dealer, not the drug purchaser, since this claim is in relation to those considered a "job") not only provides no benefit to society (providing that particular service may be a benefit to an individual, but can not by any means be considered a benefit to society as a whole), and actually has a negative outcome on society like Duggs mentioned earlier- ie crime rates etc.

Arguably, crushing souls at a poker table could indirectly lead to an inflation in crime rates since people might losin every last dollar they have an then turn to crime. However, this is inconsistent with the drug dealer in that the losing poker player doesn't have to turn to crime to make an income, whereas the drug dealers form of income is by definition a crime.

So IMO, they may seem similar at first, but when you examine in it in much more detail, the two aren't really the same at all.


I feel like I'm in English class again writing an essay lol FFS...

 

[AlfieAA]

you lot melt my head

 

[JCgrind]

Its weird seeing intelligent debate on here right? Lol

 

[AlfieAA]

lol :motz:

 

[Rldetheflop]

please name and give proof of the said legitimate professions that chave a higher net cost than drug dealing.

also JC the efficient markets is a good counter argument however i would argue that the individual effect on completing markets is essentially zero due to sheer scale

Priest/Preacher!!

Just sayin!!

Sorry misread the post and left out the proof part so I will have to edit. Well obviously there is no real "proof" but my opinion is that religion is a ponzi scheme. They ask you to give money under the notion that the money will be used to take care of the church and its congregation but most of the money ends up at the top just like a ponzi scheme. No one wonders why every single religion asks for tithing? ALL OF THEM. The worlds oldest scam IMO.

 

[Rldetheflop]

porn is accessible to anyone and i don't think its the most damaging thing in the world. If parents are negligent enough with computers then its there own fault.
what exactly are garbage pickers?
Insurance adjustors technically are neutral EV since everyone else would pay higher amounts if some claims weren't rejected.

Well yea some claims should be rejected because some are fraudulent but Insurance adjusters(not really the adjusters more like the claim "specialists") go out of their way to find any loophole to keep from having to pay certain claims and I think that is just wrong. Plus everyone wouldn't have to pay higher premiums if the greedy execs would give up a small portion of their multimillion dollar salaries.

 

[JCgrind]

derailing the derail a bit there bro

 

[Rldetheflop]

derailing the derail a bit there bro

lol yea my bad!

 

[LuckyChippy]

Duggs, I think the net benefit came from people dying on average about 10 years earlier than non-smokers. That's about the sweet spot for saving money on pensions and social care for the elderly. Obviously 30 year old's dying would be a net cost.

As far as poker is concerned, I don't think it's any different to many other legitimate professions in that we live in a world where often someone has to lose for us to win. Whether it's financial transactions or market share you have to do better than your competition and people go bankrupt because of it. Some professions may seem altruistic but you're always taking business away from someone.

They decide to risk their capital in competition with others and that money is moved around in transactions with the person making the best decisions gaining.


Sure, we're not providing a product for people to consume nor helping people by healing their sick dog but we are providing entertainment to some. We're also providing the opportunity to improve and try to become better than us. Some people will fail, some won't and the players in the market will change, that's life.

 

[duggs]

LC yea i have read that somewhere its an interesting point.

RTF, priests would be pretty net zero, they provide a service for those that want to attend church and those that do derive uility for it. bar touching young boys on occasion there is no massive cost to society beyond marginalizing minorities.

And saying execs should get paid less is stupid there is a competitive market for high performance CEO's and so there pay is super high.

 

[orangepeeleo]

WTF garbage pickers clearly contribute to society lol, are you talking about those little guys with the claws that run about the place picking up rubbish?? Or actual drive around in a lorry, bin men? I'm not sure but either quite clearly provides a needed service lol

EDIT: And if you dont agree, tell that to the poor ducks walking around with pringles tubes on their heads!

 

[duggs]

he meant people who sift through rubbish looking for stuff. not what i thought was garbage men

 

[orangepeeleo]

Thats not a job lol

 

[ovitoo]

wow..this still. Idk about where you live, but where I live there are ppl who drive around in pickup trucks grabbing anything they can from others garbage (ex:furniture, appliances, bikes etc etc). We have a established that this is not a profession and I've acknowled that I was just off topic a bit.

Garbage men who come and pick up your garbage once/wk are providing a valuable service. As well as the criminals who are doing community service and picking up trash with the claws.

I'm also confused about the "poor ducks walking around with pringles on their head" comment.

 

[orangepeeleo]

I'm also confused about the "poor ducks walking around with pringles on their head" comment.

Let me explain.

 

[ovitoo]

:rofl: hahaha

I guess I just didn't kno you meant it so literal.

 

[duggs]

that is post of the year

 

[JCgrind]

Duggs, I think the net benefit came from people dying on average about 10 years earlier than non-smokers. That's about the sweet spot for saving money on pensions and social care for the elderly. Obviously 30 year old's dying would be a net cost.

As far as poker is concerned, I don't think it's any different to many other legitimate professions in that we live in a world where often someone has to lose for us to win. Whether it's financial transactions or market share you have to do better than your competition and people go bankrupt because of it. Some professions may seem altruistic but you're always taking business away from someone.

They decide to risk their capital in competition with others and that money is moved around in transactions with the person making the best decisions gaining.


Sure, we're not providing a product for people to consume nor helping people by healing their sick dog but we are providing entertainment to some. We're also providing the opportunity to improve and try to become better than us. Some people will fail, some won't and the players in the market will change, that's life.

WTF garbage pickers clearly contribute to society lol, are you talking about those little guys with the claws that run about the place picking up rubbish?? Or actual drive around in a lorry, bin men? I'm not sure but either quite clearly provides a needed service lol

EDIT: And if you dont agree, tell that to the poor ducks walking around with pringles tubes on their heads!

Equally intelligent and thought provoking posts imo

 

[JCgrind]

Let me explain.

Needed to make a separate post for this....


LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL!

 

[LuckyChippy]

OMFG Peel.

Brilliant.

 

[coyotegal]

Lol wow. Yes I'm so arrogant saying I have a large skill advantage over suckers. Obviously if im even a slightly winning player my statement would have to be true, wouldnt it. Its not blowing my own trumpet, its making a comment about how i feel and how i believe one should feel when they "stack a sucker".

Also, posting that someone is up themselves is prob not something I'd be saying to someone, especially when I'm new and have no idea how good/bad they actually are.

JCgrind, in my eyes you have every right to say you have a large skill advantage over suckers cause as I see it, it's true.. for those who don't think so or know, check out this link....
https://www.cardschat.com/forum/pok...46/jcgrinds-grind-victory-cash-thread-212037/

lol. surely every other profession has something to offer to society? you know, excluding drug dealing as a profession etc etc haha

In my opinion, the banking and finance industry is a hundred times worse than any other profession out there. It has brought the American economy to its knees while still paying CEOs and other top dogs millions of dollars for bonus's even since the economy took a dive.
and last but not least....lol

garbage picking is not a profession.

The argument that the poker player sat their by himself, and therefore deserves whatever loses they incur is a good one but not without its counter-points. One can then say winning poker players are the same as drug dealers because no one is making the consumer buy coke. They would say.. taking money from an addicted gambler is the same as selling coke to a coke addict.

I mean it's not a terrible point and it has merit, but it will never gain any traction in a poker forum.

Garbage picking can be a profession. I personally know of a man who built a small empire from picking trash. He started as a young person and retired a wealthy old man. :tongue: