Texas Holdem, Skill or Luck. Court Rules

[Nickmond]

There is a ton of luck involved, the skill comes in surviving when your aren't lucky and thriving when you are. It's making the best of whatever cards you get your hands on.

 

[hipshot55]

This is a crazy thing to say. Document consistent success, but it's still only luck?

Poker is definitely a game of skill and knowledge. Luck is a short-term thing. If I play a hand where I's a 4:1 favorite, I'll win most 80% of the time. But you might get lucky and win a big pot 20% of the time. But even that's not luck, because your 20% win is predictable. In the long run, win percentages at showdown are pretty much etched in stone predictable. But beyond that there's the skill of pot-building, hand reading, being able to fold when you're beat, etc.

The only way poker is a game of luck is if everybody played every hand all the way to the river. But even then, eventually, we'd all come out even.

Poker is math, pure and simple, with a good dose of psychology and discipline on top of it.

Exactly. "Luck" games are those that have NO skill element; nothing you do, one way or another, short of outright cheating, will in any way affect the outcome. roulette is the classic example. Even if you only bet Red or Black, with the abysmal 1:1 payout, you're still not 50/50, because the wheel always has the 0 and 00 slots to take an additional house edge. Lotteries, much beloved of many states, including those who criminalize online poker, are an even grosser example. Keno and Bingo also come to mind.

blackjack and poker are games where the skilled, observant player will, in the long term, will always have the edge over the "luck chasers". In Blackjack, unfortunatey, you can only minimize the house edge, but never eliminate it.

 

[NoWuckingFurries]

you guys are sitting here arguing what percent luck/skill it is...COME ON. give me a break.

Actually, sorry to be pedantic but this is not an argument about what percent luck/skill it is, it is a discussion about whether poker is a game of luck, or a game of skill. So anybody who suggests that it is more than 50% luck is mistaken. Somebody who suggests it is 75% luck is very misguided. Somebody who suggests that it is 90% luck is bordering on insanity.

Its not luck its poker. Whats gonna happen is gonna happen. I just dont believe in lucky anymore, i believe in fate.

I think you will find that if you ask successful poker players, and we have plenty of them posting at this forum, they will tell you that poker is a game of skill. The ups and downs are due to variance, but overall they consistently profit from the game. You can believe in fate if you want to, but you'll have a job convincing them of that. They worked hard to get to where they are now!

 

[glworden]

We hereby resolve . . .

This is one of those topics that just gets discussed over and over again, and I frankly don't understand why we even give it the light of day. The premise in the discussion is that all opinions and viewpoints are equally valid, so those who argue that poker is a luck game should continue to do so in the hope that they can overturn the tenents of logic.

I make a motion, that CardsChat issue a resolution stating very clearly and emphatically that poker is a game of skill.

Because it is. It's really not a matter of opinion. It's a fact.
Gary

 

[petey5o]

Actually, sorry to be pedantic but this is not an argument about what percent luck/skill it is, it is a discussion about whether poker is a game of luck, or a game of skill. So anybody who suggests that it is more than 50% luck is mistaken. Somebody who suggests it is 75% luck is very misguided. Somebody who suggests that it is 90% luck is bordering on insanity.I think you will find that if you ask successful poker players, and we have plenty of them posting at this forum, they will tell you that poker is a game of skill. The ups and downs are due to variance, but overall they consistently profit from the game. You can believe in fate if you want to, but you'll have a job convincing them of that. They worked hard to get to where they are now!

half the posts above mine were people saying "its 90 percent luck" its "70 percent luck" thats what i was replying 2. I know what the original thread was about. I was stating that now people in the thread were going back and forth about how much luck or skill it is.
Then the fate part i didnt mean it like oh so and so is destined to get rich/be a successfull player. I meant it like a given that somedays your aces are gonna lose 4 times in a row, i shouldnt have said fate, i mean to say i believe in "math/odds, or variance"

 

[rugby0]

Does anyone have any idea of a sound methodolgy to establish the truth in this luck verus skill argument.. Is there a math model or has there been a testable hypotheis posited any where that anyone knows about.