The Art of the Check-Raise (Day 27 Course Discussion)

[Katie Dozier]

Nice video, lot of good spots shown here.
I would add that 88 hand where we check-raised from SB after a min bet and a call is a pretty standard thing to do, even regardless of what our holding is. Min betting is in my experience a huge sign of weakness, calling such a weak bet is sign of even greater weakness so it can be exploited quite often

Great point and thank you

 

[PsychoVas]

I am rather conservative with check-raising, same as with 3-betting. And I tend to respect both moves a lot.
The really wrecking part though is when it backfires...
I hold AQclubs, one limper, 4x pre-flop, limper calls.
Flop is 10d8c10c. I check-raise, villain shoves, I have him covered and call. He flips over pocket 8s...

 

[shanest]

I think whats important with the check raise is to have the plan in hand on turns. Which turns do i shut down, which do i continue.

I also like to size it correctly as you can get in some awkward spots on turns when your combo draws miss. Ideally I like to size it so I can shove most turns on big combo draws.

 

[Collin Moshman]

I think whats important with the check raise is to have the plan in hand on turns. Which turns do i shut down, which do i continue.

I also like to size it correctly as you can get in some awkward spots on turns when your combo draws miss. Ideally I like to size it so I can shove most turns on big combo draws.

Definitely -- planning out the turn/river is very important after a flop check-raise!

 

[bempassado]

Great lesson, I'm still reviewing lesson 15 but i'm loving the course.

 

[Edison A]

The Art of the Check-Raise is a mandatory class for every poker player, lessons as they are perfect our game, you also have to be careful when facing a player who dominates the Check-Raise very well, there are players who do it very well, in Anyway, poker is a school that you never finish learning, thanks for this excellent article, I loved it!

 

[zam220]

This is a very effective poker trick! He is very effective at bluffing, and my bluffing is most often positive when using a check-raise!

 

[Katie Dozier]

Great lesson, I'm still reviewing lesson 15 but i'm loving the course.

So glad to hear this, thanks!

 

[johnnylawford]

I like the idea of check-raise bluffing on coordinated flops when you have the range advantage. For instance, defending your big blind against a tight opponent and the flop is 876 or 995 check-raising any c-bet.

 

[caracaski220]

caracaski220

I think the check raise is a vital part of the players arsenal. On the one hand it can be used to bdraw more money into the pot when you are out of position, on the other it is a great bluffing tool.

 

[lollipopas]

Here's a hand I played recently that really was a turn in a freeroll I played where I ultimately got ITM. I think it counts. Really like sneaky sets


Winning Poker, Hold'em No Limit - 50/100 (10 ante) - 8 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat

UTG: 2,840 (28 bb)
UTG+1 (Hero): 4,845 (48 bb)
MP: 1,430 (14 bb)
MP+1: 6,865 (69 bb)
CO: 1,250 (13 bb)
BU: 1,725 (17 bb)
SB: 1,255 (13 bb)
BB: 816 (8 bb)

Pre-Flop: (235) Hero is UTG+1 with T♦ T♥
1 fold, Hero raises to 300, 1 fold, MP+1 3-bets to 1,135, 1 fold, BTN 4-bets to 1,715 (all-in), 2 players fold, Hero calls 1,415, MP+1 calls 580

Flop: (5,380) 6♣ T♣ J♠ (3 players, 1 all-in)
Hero checks, MP+1 bets 2,690, Hero raises to 3,120 (all-in), MP+1 calls 430

Turn: (11,620) A♣ (3 players, 2 all-in)

River: (11,620) 3♠ (3 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: 11,620

Showdown:
UTG+1 (Hero) shows T♦ T♥ (three of a kind, Tens)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 18%, Flop: 87%, Turn: 88%, River: 100%)

MP+1 shows K♦ K♥ (a pair of Kings)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 58%, Flop: 4%, Turn: 7%, River: 0%)

BU shows A♠ Q♥ (a pair of Aces)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 23%, Flop: 9%, Turn: 5%, River: 0%)

UTG+1 (Hero) wins 11,620

 

[deyvsonflp]

Thanks for the class. Very technical and very well explained. This is a technique I learned late. It is certainly very valuable.

 

[Collin Moshman]

I like the idea of check-raise bluffing on coordinated flops when you have the range advantage. For instance, defending your big blind against a tight opponent and the flop is 876 or 995 check-raising any c-bet.

That's a nice idea, particularly the 876 -- on 995 he might call with hands like ace-high being suspicious that you would play 9X that fast. But I like this concept and I'm thinking we should make a future video or chapter on range advantages!

 

[Collin Moshman]

Here's a hand I played recently that really was a turn in a freeroll I played where I ultimately got ITM. I think it counts. Really like sneaky sets


Winning Poker, Hold'em No Limit - 50/100 (10 ante) - 8 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat

UTG: 2,840 (28 bb)
UTG+1 (Hero): 4,845 (48 bb)
MP: 1,430 (14 bb)
MP+1: 6,865 (69 bb)
CO: 1,250 (13 bb)
BU: 1,725 (17 bb)
SB: 1,255 (13 bb)
BB: 816 (8 bb)

Pre-Flop: (235) Hero is UTG+1 with T♦ T♥
1 fold, Hero raises to 300, 1 fold, MP+1 3-bets to 1,135, 1 fold, BTN 4-bets to 1,715 (all-in), 2 players fold, Hero calls 1,415, MP+1 calls 580

Flop: (5,380) 6♣ T♣ J♠ (3 players, 1 all-in)
Hero checks, MP+1 bets 2,690, Hero raises to 3,120 (all-in), MP+1 calls 430

Turn: (11,620) A♣ (3 players, 2 all-in)

River: (11,620) 3♠ (3 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: 11,620

Showdown:
UTG+1 (Hero) shows T♦ T♥ (three of a kind, Tens)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 18%, Flop: 87%, Turn: 88%, River: 100%)

MP+1 shows K♦ K♥ (a pair of Kings)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 58%, Flop: 4%, Turn: 7%, River: 0%)

BU shows A♠ Q♥ (a pair of Aces)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 23%, Flop: 9%, Turn: 5%, River: 0%)

UTG+1 (Hero) wins 11,620

Nice hand I would suggest shoving or folding pre-flop when the action gets back to you since 1700 is a high enough fraction of your stack that it commits you to the pot. But great flop check/raise!

Thanks for the class. Very technical and very well explained. This is a technique I learned late. It is certainly very valuable.

Thanks Deyvsonflop!

 

[tagece]

I like this move, specially when you are playing in home games with friends. You can see the reaction, what don't happens on online poker. But almost always the villain spends a good time to react. And it's a good defense strategy against over aggressive players too.

 

[Katie Dozier]

I like this move, specially when you are playing in home games with friends. You can see the reaction, what don't happens on online poker. But almost always the villain spends a good time to react. And it's a good defense strategy against over aggressive players too.

Haha that is true, doing in in home games often gets a strong reaction

 

[nwhitney118]

Almost all the examples you guys gave were of the strongest draws (12+outs, overcards etc), but what about weaker draws like backdoor flush draws or gutshots? Are these also fairly good spots to check raise or should we look to play smaller pots given we have less chance of hitting our outs?

Really interesting topic, definitely one of the spiciest covered so far

 

[Katie Dozier]

Almost all the examples you guys gave were of the strongest draws (12+outs, overcards etc), but what about weaker draws like backdoor flush draws or gutshots? Are these also fairly good spots to check raise or should we look to play smaller pots given we have less chance of hitting our outs?

Really interesting topic, definitely one of the spiciest covered so far

The weaker a draw is, the more it moves along the sliding scale from semi-bluff to bluff. These are the kind of spots that can easily become very situational in poker, hence our decision not to include as many of them given that they are less transferable in general (and overall quite a bit less important than the more profitable check-raise spots with strong draws).

For example the backdoor draws, in order to check raise (instead of a default fold when not getting the correct odds to continue as would often be the case with the weak draws you mentioned), I would want to see that my opponent had a very high c-bet % as well as a high check-raise % over a significant sample. If I see that info and opt to check-raise, then that play is really more about exploiting my opponent's leaks than it is check-raising as a semi-bluff (having a shot at a draw is really just something extra to go along with what I essentially consider to be a bluff at that point).

In very general terms it will be unprofitable to default check-raise weak draws, so that should not be the norm--and why there weren't nearly as many examples of this as the profitable check-raises with strong draws that we sought to emphasize in this section. Hope this helps

 

[nwhitney118]

The weaker a draw is, the more it moves along the sliding scale from semi-bluff to bluff. These are the kind of spots that can easily become very situational in poker, hence our decision not to include as many of them given that they are less transferable in general (and overall quite a bit less important than the more profitable check-raise spots with strong draws).

For example the backdoor draws, in order to check raise (instead of a default fold when not getting the correct odds to continue as would often be the case with the weak draws you mentioned), I would want to see that my opponent had a very high c-bet % as well as a high check-raise % over a significant sample. If I see that info and opt to check-raise, then that play is really more about exploiting my opponent's leaks than it is check-raising as a semi-bluff (having a shot at a draw is really just something extra to go along with what I essentially consider to be a bluff at that point).

In very general terms it will be unprofitable to default check-raise weak draws, so that should not be the norm--and why there weren't nearly as many examples of this as the profitable check-raises with strong draws that we sought to emphasize in this section. Hope this helps

Yep that definitely makes a lot of sense, I had a feeling it'd be one of those sticky situations haha.

 

[Katie Dozier]

Yep that definitely makes a lot of sense, I had a feeling it'd be one of those sticky situations haha.

Glad it helped and I saw in another thread that you completed the course I believe? Well done!

 

[Collin Moshman]

For example the backdoor draws, in order to check raise (instead of a default fold when not getting the correct odds to continue as would often be the case with the weak draws you mentioned), I would want to see that my opponent had a very high c-bet % as well as a high check-raise % over a significant sample. If I see that info and opt to check-raise, then that play is really more about exploiting my opponent's leaks than it is check-raising as a semi-bluff (having a shot at a draw is really just something extra to go along with what I essentially consider to be a bluff at that point).

I probably wouldn’t be more inclined to make a light check-raise against an opponent who check-raises a lot themselves (and may therefore know there’s a real chance you’re bluffing), but I agree that seeing a high cbet % in our opponent makes this play a lot better. Nice comment!

 

[fundiver199]

I probably wouldn’t be more inclined to make a light check-raise against an opponent who check-raises a lot themselves (and may therefore know there’s a real chance you’re bluffing), but I agree that seeing a high cbet % in our opponent makes this play a lot better. Nice comment!

Exactly. On the contrary we want to attack people, who rarely bluff themselfes, and who might think, we dont either. Its called "the mirror complex".

 

[Good Man]

Honestly, this lesson was very interesting to me, I saw this lesson when I was scrolling through the list of courses at the very beginning of my training. And I was very intrigued. And just today I passed this lesson. Like you, Katie is my favorite strategy in poker. The strategy works perfectly with a high combination on the hand, and in a semi-bluff.
If you immediately raise the bet, you can scare off your opponents and get little money from the hand. And if you show a weakness in the form of a check, it provokes your opponents to take active actions. A lot of people can raise the bid a lot to get me out of the Bank. In this case, a big raise is made, and you can even bet all-in. Many competitors are dumbfounded by this move and do not know what to do next. Sometimes linking a large amount to the Bank encourages them to make a call. In this case, we get even more money from a high combination.
Thank you for the lesson!




Life is a game , play beautiful

 

[carmenzu]

Well this is special to combat loose aggressive or maniacal players.
I have to practice it, the truth is I do not use this technique much.

 

[Phyrrura]

This 4th week is being beyond my expectations

Everything I learn'd 'till in this course really improved my game, but this one went beyond all my tactics in poker.

Collin, you gotta start this check-raise strategy man, Katia is just in the right way. I just put this in my game today and it went tremendous effective, I can now look forward for a big improve in my profits.