Should You C-Bet? (Day 8 Course Discussion)

[FF2586]

Hello!

Should I c-bet?! That's a question I do ask myself very frequently!
This lesson is helping me with my basic landmarks in the c-bet spots! I need some basic landmarks!

Thanks guys again and again!

gl gl gl

 

[BentleyBoy]

Another great day’s training in the British sunshine. I love the reference back to Harrington on Holdem..... the first poker book that I ever read. The concept of c-betting took me back to those days of working my way through that book and the questions at the end. Loving the way this training is going.

I especially liked he reminder that you should assess who you are playing against to determine your play, which may change depending on whether playing against a reg or a rec.

Thanks guys.

BB

 

[Andrew Popov]

C-Bet is a strong thing. You can do this even when bluffing, and you must place a continuation bet if you get a ready hand or a strong draw.

Continued betting in the later streets, after calls on the flop should be done taking into account the playing style of your opponents.

 

[gardin555]

Good topic, is interesting to know that we have more chance to win the pot making C-Bet when we are raiser preflop and cotinuos with the same line on the flop, wheter if the flop isn’t the good one for us, with a hand relatively good, and when the flop isn’t very coordinate.

 

[Katie Dozier]

Another great day’s training in the British sunshine. I love the reference back to Harrington on Holdem..... the first poker book that I ever read. The concept of c-betting took me back to those days of working my way through that book and the questions at the end. Loving the way this training is going.

I especially liked he reminder that you should assess who you are playing against to determine your play, which may change depending on whether playing against a reg or a rec.

Thanks guys.

BB

Glad to hear that you're enjoying the course and the Harrington reference! Thanks, BentleyBoy

 

[Tux97]

Very useful knowledge in this lesson thank you. Just two points:

- Against tight villains, is it wise to actually take advantage of a wet coordinated flop and represent strong hands and c-bet as a bluff?

- Two interesting concepts were mentioned by Collin the video but I hope they will be included in a future revision of the book, namely not c-betting showdown value hands and not c-betting monopolized flops against recs.

 

[Collin Moshman]

Very useful knowledge in this lesson thank you. Just two points:

- Against tight villains, is it wise to actually take advantage of a wet coordinated flop and represent strong hands and c-bet as a bluff?

- Two interesting concepts were mentioned by Collin the video but I hope they will be included in a future revision of the book, namely not c-betting showdown value hands and not c-betting monopolized flops against recs.

*** Sometimes it can make sense to c-bet bluff a wet flop, but keep in mind that if a tight player has called your raise, he's already shown strength. So while this is a nice idea, I'd usually pass on bluffing wet flops without a pretty good reason.

*** We talk a bit more about those concepts I believe, but feel free to post if you have more questions on them. I agree they're important topics

 

[1nsomn1a]

Unfortunately, the concept of C bet does not mean much to players at micro-limits, as do many other poker rules.

Sometimes I really want to play tactical thinking poker, but I think this desire will not justify playing at inflated rates, and even more so will not justify the possible loss of the entire bankroll.

By the way, for PokerStars players, in play money games with buy-ins above 5 million, there are very interesting and strong players. W
I
bored playing spins using the martingale system on play money, of course, you can quickly win a lot or lose everything

 

[Katie Dozier]

Unfortunately, the concept of C bet does not mean much to players at micro-limits, as do many other poker rules.

Sometimes I really want to play tactical thinking poker, but I think this desire will not justify playing at inflated rates, and even more so will not justify the possible loss of the entire bankroll.

By the way, for PokerStars players, in play money games with buy-ins above 5 million, there are very interesting and strong players. W
I
bored playing spins using the martingale system on play money, of course, you can quickly win a lot or lose everything

I totally understand what you mean, having worked my way up from the micro-limits. It’s true that the action can be more wild there, but in the long run that will actually make fundamental poker strategies like c-betting, even more profitable (because players tend to make more mistakes against you). I promise these are the most important tactics in the micros with an eye to the long run, best of luck!

 

[Tux97]

I've been thinking about the recommendation not to c-bet if the flop is wet. If hero flopped a top pair, isn't it sensible to bet aggressively on the flop, at least, to stop villain from cheaply seeing the turn and completing a possible flush or straight draw? Thanks.

 

[mclaughlinph]

I always C bet. Regardless of the board because I play a style that my opponent should put me on any two cards and the board could hit me just as easily as it hit them if they miss the board they will fold unless they have the nuts and still C betting when your opponent has the nuts is a good way to find out your opponent has the nuts because you get re-raised on the flop and fold or smooth called and then you can just put on the brakes on the turn and let the pot go if you don't have a hand. But you will win a higher percentage of hands when you have nothing with a C bet when your opponents fold on the flop.A large percentage of the time your opponent is gonna miss the board just as often as you do. I find C bets work particularly well late in tourneys but I find the bigger the blinds and the later the tourney the higher amount of preflop all ins come into play and dominate the action especially with short stacks.Also I find you cant become to automated with c bets otherwise you will start to get looked up if you do it too many times in a row over a short period of time.

 

[ammje]

Thank you very much for this article, it has helped me a lot, to know when to c-bet.
Not all flops are good for c-betting, or sometimes the contrary, a flop is too good, and you have to check to catch the villain.

 

[Katie Dozier]

I've been thinking about the recommendation not to c-bet if the flop is wet. If hero flopped a top pair, isn't it sensible to bet aggressively on the flop, at least, to stop villain from cheaply seeing the turn and completing a possible flush or straight draw? Thanks.

The key to deciding if it is a spot where we should c-bet a wet board with a hand like top pair is if it is likely that we'll get value from worse hands. We want to tread with particular caution in situations where there are a lot of draws in our opponent's range that have extremely good equity (because a lot of times if we c-bet there our opponent would be correct to call whereas we are seeking to have our opponents make mistakes against us). In other words, is our made hand actually one we can reasonably expect to get value from or in reality is it more of a hand that we may win a small pot at showdown with?

Hope this helps, Tux Feel free to post any HHs if you come across any of these close c-betting spots and would like feedback.

 

[morthiman]

Tricky as freaky

Loved this topic.

There are 3 ways to look at CBet for me

1. U hit nothing and no draws

2. U Hit something (Draws, Top pair, Cards Higher than board)

3. U Got it (Trips, Flushes, Straights +)

1. Usually I try to capitalize when it's dry and I'm facing 2 or less(just like videos)

The TRICKY part is 2.

Should I lead and tell I have someting, and might face a re raise or should I just keep calling and keep the pot small, because I have "showdown value".

The FREAKY part is 3.


If I go the goods say like...TRIPs, and the board comes also a draw? What should I do here? Bet Higher so NO DRAWS would call? Bet light to make the next card expensive?

The thing is, if someone HITS on the river and value bets you, If after the flop u got trips or 2 pair...is insanely difficult to fold.


THIS is the part where I see I'm leaving money on the table....sometimes I bet heavy because I'm afraid someone will hit on the turn or river (and lose potential money) and on other times, I slow play, they ht one the river and I pay just to lose a bunch of chips

Anyone has this problem too?

 

[Collin Moshman]

You should definitely bet when you're strong and the board has a lot of draws. Sometimes your opponent will hit a draw and you'll lose a lot of money. But the important thing is that long-run you're getting your money in good (i.e., when your equity is high).

 

[acidburnfx]

On dry boards we can make a lower c-bet because we don't take many calls, while on flops with many draws we can apply the highest c-bet because we take several calls.

 

[dunc1189]

Just finished going over this one and very useful topic for me. Has shown me that I am c-betting way too often, particularly in scenarios with a wet board or a monopolised board. Hopefully start leaking a few less chips once I get the hang of implementing this new knowledge into my strategy!

 

[Katie Dozier]

Just finished going over this one and very useful topic for me. Has shown me that I am c-betting way too often, particularly in scenarios with a wet board or a monopolised board. Hopefully start leaking a few less chips once I get the hang of implementing this new knowledge into my strategy!

That's great that you've managed to identify a leak and are seeking to plug it. I totally understand as I used to do the same thing

 

[freddydr87]

The Cbet is a powefull tool in other to cbet or not you should study at least 12 diferent tipes off flop and how your rangue (in every possition) impact on it and them you make groups off hands polarized(valanced with value and bluff) and make 3(at least i have only 3,u could have more) goups, cbetting small (ussually 1/3), cbetting big (3/4 i dont like to overbet F i like it more on the t,lol) and checking.

 

[dunc1189]

Hi both, played this hand today where I feel I probably made a couple of mistakes - https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/524CKBpWC

Pretty sure I shouldn't have c-bet the turn and should have just checked down the rest of the hand / folded to a bet. However, was the c-bet on the flop an ok play? Or should I have just checked back due to having some showdown value and also the risk of villain having an ace.

 

[Katie Dozier]

Hi both, played this hand today where I feel I probably made a couple of mistakes - https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/524CKBpWC

Pretty sure I shouldn't have c-bet the turn and should have just checked down the rest of the hand / folded to a bet. However, was the c-bet on the flop an ok play? Or should I have just checked back due to having some showdown value and also the risk of villain having an ace.

Personally, I would've made a larger raise pre-flop. Considering that seat 3 is raising a bet from UTG, this tends to indicate more strength than in he was raising an open from later position. In spots like this, I like to make my raise 3x or bigger, so around 1800-2400. I want to raise bigger not only to immediately get more value for our KK but also to increase the likelihood that we're able to play for stacks during this hand.

On the flop, I would decline to make a c-bet in this situation. There aren't a lot of worse hands that will call or really any better hands that will fold. If we win this pot, it is unlikely to be a large pot, so we also aren't looking to increase the size.

If our opponent declined to bet out on the turn after the flop went check-check I would make a small bet for value and to decrease the chances of our opponent firing on the river and possibly bluffing us out with a large bet. Then I would check back the river.

Hope this helps

 

[tuku222]

from my point of view the variance and the probabilities are many, and clearly apostanto when there are several people in hand there will be an advance of possibilities that I would not like to face !! aggressiveness must be measured according to the moment I think

 

[dunc1189]

Personally, I would've made a larger raise pre-flop. Considering that seat 3 is raising a bet from UTG, this tends to indicate more strength than in he was raising an open from later position. In spots like this, I like to make my raise 3x or bigger, so around 1800-2400. I want to raise bigger not only to immediately get more value for our KK but also to increase the likelihood that we're able to play for stacks during this hand.

On the flop, I would decline to make a c-bet in this situation. There aren't a lot of worse hands that will call or really any better hands that will fold. If we win this pot, it is unlikely to be a large pot, so we also aren't looking to increase the size.

If our opponent declined to bet out on the turn after the flop went check-check I would make a small bet for value and to decrease the chances of our opponent firing on the river and possibly bluffing us out with a large bet. Then I would check back the river.

Hope this helps

Thanks for the detailed response, helps a lot!

 

[Katie Dozier]

Thanks for the detailed response, helps a lot!

Glad to hear it helped! Just let me know if you have any other questions

 

[johnnylawford]

I've never heard hit saying, but I like it:

“If the flop is wet, forget your c-bet!”

Great chapter, and good examples.