Is GTO poker starting to die?

[john2fingers]

Having spent months and months paying for subs to all the latest coaching, solvers etc, it was initially profitable and pretty much paid for itself but lately it feels like the end is nigh for this period of pokers constant evolution and I'm now questioning whether this is an investment I can continue to make. There has been a massive increase in pure gambling these last few months and no matter how optimally you play, this massive increase in players just playing any 2 cards in any position is becoming increasingly difficult to manipulate or profit from. This feels more than just a simple downswing on my part, I have spoken to everyone in my study group and the consensus is that there seems to be a pattern. We can't all be feeling the same downswing at the same time right?

I know the biggest site in the world has put huge emphasis and focus on fast format, bounty heavy games that promote pure gambling and this seems to be filtering through to other, more established sites too.

What are people's thoughts and experiences in regards to this?

 

[Tero]

Well, you didn't mention at what levels do you play?
I've been watching lately the Danish Twitch streamer Daniel Petersen who plays at very high levels sometimes. Some days ago he was complaining about that he can't make it in under $500 buy-in games. People just suck out all the time.
But in general I don't think that GTO is going anywhere. It just might not be there where we are.

 

[Poker Orifice]

Adapt.
Adapt to the situation... the players... the structure... etc. etc. etc.
Honestly sounds like some opportunities for exploiting the other player's tendencies.

And yes I do notice a move towards tournaments with faster structures, (shorter effective stacks in late game play) and tons of KO, PKO type tournaments. Many recreational players like to gamble... and they like the thought of being able to win 'something' even if it's just the value of their buyin.
We can adapt and work at learning ranges & odds we need for calling off in bounty situations.

Personally I have always preferred freezeouts and wasn't keen on playing the PKO's at first. I feel I've been forced to 'adapt'.
The Twitch poker streamer I watch the most happens to specialize in PKO/Bounty Tournaments and the site they play the most volume on is GGPoker. They do quite well in them. And the other streamer I watch regularly plays a mix of freezeouts & bountys. He didn't seem to care for bounty tournaments much before either but he's adapting and doing well also.

I know I've got a TON of work to do myself for PKO tournament play (for all tournament play really.... ahem... for ALL poker play period, lol).

I also find I need to work on my mental game when playing in Bounty tourneys, being prepared to 're-enter' in early levels and attempting to build a decent stack to sustain some donkings. Working towards more volume is helpful for me as well (it's less painful having your stack decimated at crucial spots in the tourney when you've got a bunch of other tables on the go).

Off-topic but for cashgame play I find some of the sites to be extremely aggro these days!

 

[pentazepam]

massive increase in players just playing any 2 cards in any position i

Wonderful.

You can't lose with a stronger range if you know how to play post-flop.

But you can't just use a chart or any RTA if you want to exploit them to the max.

 

[pentazepam]

Some days ago he was complaining about that he can't make it in under $500 buy-in games. People just suck out all the time.

Seriously. If he can't adapt he is blaming bad luck.

I suggest watching some other streamers.

If you get the money in with the best hand you should be happy no matter the result. There is no magic "suck out" skill.

 

[Station_Master]

If players are playing worse then that is good for making more money. Seriously, surely it can't be too hard to beat these players , you just need to not play GTO and exploit their mistakes.

 

[eetenor]

Having spent months and months paying for subs to all the latest coaching, solvers etc, it was initially profitable and pretty much paid for itself but lately it feels like the end is nigh for this period of pokers constant evolution and I'm now questioning whether this is an investment I can continue to make. There has been a massive increase in pure gambling these last few months and no matter how optimally you play, this massive increase in players just playing any 2 cards in any position is becoming increasingly difficult to manipulate or profit from. This feels more than just a simple downswing on my part, I have spoken to everyone in my study group and the consensus is that there seems to be a pattern. We can't all be feeling the same downswing at the same time right?

I know the biggest site in the world has put huge emphasis and focus on fast format, bounty heavy games that promote pure gambling and this seems to be filtering through to other, more established sites too.

What are people's thoughts and experiences in regards to this?

A Player playing any 2 will be very profitable for you but the variance swings will be enormous. So, if you are used to easy games where you are in control of passive players and just grinding out profit in that manner high variance games will be shocking to you but have nothing to do with invalidating GTO.

 

[LUKADONCICMVP]

poker is dead already was fun when it last.

 

[EarnDAStack]

GTO is a baseline strategy from which once you've developed a default strategy you should be adapting to exploit each player's weaknesses.

I don't quite understand why people think that a optimal strategy is going to become less common as the games are becoming less profitable, if anything that would mean it's more important to develop a baseline unexploitable strategy. Are professional chess players using chess engines less now that chess is harder than it's ever been? It doesn't make any sense

Games are getting tougher because there's less money in the overall world economy due to a myriad of reasons. They aren't getting tougher because the fish you're playing against might be holding any two cards, that's proof there's still a lot of money to be made if you can get yourself at the right tables.

In the immortal words of Phil Galfond:

What do I do against over-aggressive opponents?

Make a lot of money...

GL

EDS

 

[ActuaryOfLife]

GTO is not the Holy Grail. It is just a system, that you must know. Not the hardest job.

At a certain level in cash games where all players are TAG or LAG you must deviate from GTO whenever possible.

GTO claims to be unexploitable. I don’t subscribe to this point of view.

I have no idea what GTO really is, but if scientists (in particular, mathematicians) have studied this then I'd say the "claim" is legit. xD
It's not pseudo-science that is being spread around on poker boards.

- notes to my freeroll-playing & nl2-playing dumbass: Maybe I should look it up and try to understand GTO, lmao.

 

[dreamer13]

GTO does not require adaptability. The strategy does not take into account the history of hands.GTO play is hard to exploit. This is what regulars use when they make polar big bets on the river. They may have both nuts and cards that didn't suit the board.Playing according to GTO will not be negative against any opponent. In the event that two opponents play according to the optimal strategy, which is possible only in a vacuum, it will end in a draw. Even at micro limits GTO will be useful - this is the best way to win and big wins.

 

[accuratefern]

I have no idea what GTO really is, but if scientists (in particular, mathematicians) have studied this then I'd say the "claim" is legit. xD
It's not pseudo-science that is being spread around on poker boards.

- notes to my freeroll-playing & nl2-playing dumbass: Maybe I should look it up and try to understand GTO, lmao.

GTO does not require adaptability. The strategy does not take into account the history of hands.GTO play is hard to exploit. This is what regulars use when they make polar big bets on the river. They may have both nuts and cards that didn't suit the board.Playing according to GTO will not be negative against any opponent. In the event that two opponents play according to the optimal strategy, which is possible only in a vacuum, it will end in a draw. Even at micro limits GTO will be useful - this is the best way to win and big wins.

GTO is usefull, but it is not unexploitable as it claims. There is no such thing as unexploitable poker.

Perfect poker does not exist. GTO is a shrewd math based system. Nothing more, nothing less.

Math does not beat psychology in poker. In time we will probably see a new system.

AI will perhaps incororate psychology in a new system. But only to a certain degree.

Mankind has refined psychology for 50.000 years. Should AI suddenly beat this. Unlikely.

 

[hardfloor]

I believe that solvers indicate the best decision-making, but in the micro limits field, for example, they do not apply these solutions and have barely heard of them or have had access to them.
Poker continues to be the last human action when faced with situations and emotions.
Believe in order to become profitable wherever you play you must study the population and adapt a profitable strategy, so that these thoughts are not frequent in our minds.
Open in Google Translate
•
Feedback

 

[TeUnit]

I think for most of the CC players, in the games they usually play, that exploitive play will have a higher return than GTO.

If you see players open limping with players sitting out, you can put away the GTO and focus on making exploitive plays.

 

[oriole]

GTO poker will never die because, in theory, it is the most optimal way to play against unknown opponents. However, I generally prefer an exploitative style because, in practice, players at small and mid-stakes rarely play optimally and can be exploited. At the highest level, though, you must master GTO.

 

[DarkSage]

I sincerely hope so, to be honest.

 

[Baco]

I don’t think GTO is dying at all — if anything, it’s becoming the baseline. What is changing is that playing “solver-perfect” in isolation isn’t enough anymore, especially in fast formats.

GTO gives you a solid, unexploitable foundation, but the real edge now comes from deviating correctly against the population. When player pools get looser and more gamble-heavy, pure GTO EV flattens, variance explodes, and emotional downswings feel synchronized across regs. That can easily look like a pattern rather than variance.

Fast formats and bounty-heavy games definitely amplify this effect, but that doesn’t mean optimal play stopped working — it just means you need stronger exploit layers, better game selection, and stricter stop-loss rules. GTO tells you where the baseline is; exploitation is where the money still comes from.

In my experience, players who combine GTO understanding with population reads are still winning — but the edge is thinner and the swings are rougher.

 

[Mario7]

no matter how optimally you play, this massive increase in players just playing any 2 cards in any position is becoming increasingly difficult to manipulate or profit from

I am sorry but poker simply does not work this way. Of course I am far from saying playing blindly GTO is always superb, but I just do not believe in the concept "I cannot win because players are worse".

 

[machinm19]

It only works if the opponents play the same way over and over and doesn’t account for players changing strategies mid game. It’s a set style it can be learned and beaten.

 

[thwenth1983]

🎯 What’s happening with GTO Poker today

1️⃣ GTO became the standard, not a differentiator anymore

In the past, anyone who studied GTO had a huge edge. Today: Almost every regular uses solvers Preflop charts, balanced ranges, and GTO sizings have become “basic”
👉 This leveled the field; it didn’t kill GTO.

2️⃣ The game became tougher and less exploitable

Fewer obvious mistakes Fewer absurd calls Fewer overbluffs
➡️ For those who don’t study, it feels like the game has “dried up.”

3️⃣ Many recreational grinders migrated or went broke

Crypto, sports betting, casinos Inflation + high rake
👉 Less dead money at the tables → the feeling that “there’s no more action.”

4️⃣ Sites are cracking down on bots, HUDs, and scripts

Bans Software restrictions Changes to HUD usage
➡️ Players who relied only on tools felt the impact.

🧠 The common mistake: “GTO doesn’t work anymore”
This is false.

What changed:

❌ GTO alone is no longer enough ✅ GTO is now the foundation 💣 The profit comes from exploiting those who try to copy GTO poorly

Anyone who copies solver outputs without understanding becomes predictable.

📈 Where GTO is still VERY strong

Mid/high-stakes online cash games Spins High-stakes MTTs Tough games / reg-heavy tables

Even more so:

To avoid being exploited To build solid exploits

🔥 What actually makes money today

GTO + pool reads Targeted exploitation Table selection Emotional control and volume Knowing when to DEVIATE from GTO

🧩 Straight summary

❌ GTO poker didn’t die 🔄 It became the foundation 🎯 Those who didn’t evolve think it died 🧠 Those who truly understand GTO keep winning

 

[Poker Orifice]

It only works if the opponents play the same way over and over and doesn’t account for players changing strategies mid game. It’s a set style it can be learned and beaten.

Game theory optimal. 'unexploitable'

 

[burba]

Unexploitable does not mean unbeatable.

 

[SPANKYSN]

Having spent months and months paying for subs to all the latest coaching, solvers etc, it was initially profitable and pretty much paid for itself but lately it feels like the end is nigh for this period of pokers constant evolution and I'm now questioning whether this is an investment I can continue to make. There has been a massive increase in pure gambling these last few months and no matter how optimally you play, this massive increase in players just playing any 2 cards in any position is becoming increasingly difficult to manipulate or profit from. This feels more than just a simple downswing on my part, I have spoken to everyone in my study group and the consensus is that there seems to be a pattern. We can't all be feeling the same downswing at the same time right?

I know the biggest site in the world has put huge emphasis and focus on fast format, bounty heavy games that promote pure gambling and this seems to be filtering through to other, more established sites too.

What are people's thoughts and experiences in regards to this?

Just played some live poker at a local casino…half the table were old geezers like me, the others were 20 somethings with no concept of money…just raw aggression…sat patiently for an hour and a half, then crashed out with a flopped two pairs against 8,6 of diamonds…two diamonds on the flop and another on the river…he went all in with the flush draw…that cut me in half…very next hand, I have KK and end up all in against the same guy with AK…rivers a K…OK, the last hand makes sense to anyone…but all I on 8 high flush? Kids today…

 

[anasslaaleg]

Not really but its mythical invincibility is. GTO (Game Theory Optimal) will always be a foundation because it prevents long-term exploitation. But today’s game rewards adaptation, psychology, and exploitative play more than ever. In real games, opponents aren’t balanced robots, so the best players mix GTO principles with reads, tendencies, and pressure timing. GTO isn’t dying it’s just no longer enough on its own.

 

[jamesmiller]

GTO was just the beginning. Mixing technology and community is the nuts.
The latest AI learning platforms like optimuspoker can create the next big time in poker.