Is GTO poker starting to die?

[csabika94]

A lot of people play with emotions... They stick to cards... that can cause problems.

 

[Jyco]

I don’t think so. GTO is still the optimal way to play poker. Even though it includes some marginal hands that might look strange at first, they are played for balance and long-term profitability.

The real issue appears when you play a GTO-style strategy against opponents who don’t follow any logical patterns. When players are completely unpredictable, playing random hands from any position and using inconsistent bet sizing, it can feel like GTO loses value. In reality, it doesn’t. It just needs to be adjusted.

In the long run, a solid GTO foundation will always give you an edge over newer players or recreational gamblers. Those players may win in the short term, but if you stay disciplined and make correct decisions consistently, GTO-based play will outperform them over time.

 

[G0930]

Having spent months and months paying for subs to all the latest coaching, solvers etc, it was initially profitable and pretty much paid for itself but lately it feels like the end is nigh for this period of pokers constant evolution and I'm now questioning whether this is an investment I can continue to make. There has been a massive increase in pure gambling these last few months and no matter how optimally you play, this massive increase in players just playing any 2 cards in any position is becoming increasingly difficult to manipulate or profit from. This feels more than just a simple downswing on my part, I have spoken to everyone in my study group and the consensus is that there seems to be a pattern. We can't all be feeling the same downswing at the same time right?

I know the biggest site in the world has put huge emphasis and focus on fast format, bounty heavy games that promote pure gambling and this seems to be filtering through to other, more established sites too.

What are people's thoughts and experiences in regards to this?

What stakes do you play ?
GTO NEVER was relevant in micro and low stakes.
Mid to high stakes is where GTO is used.
And no it certainly won't die it's just only then useful if the majority plays according to it...which simply doesn't happen except for highstakes and the occasional midstake game.

Could be a missperception on my part but from my observation GTO play is pretty much useless when your opponent has the whole deck as his range

 

[Goggelheimer]

I don’t think so. GTO is still the optimal way to play poker. Even though it includes some marginal hands that might look strange at first, they are played for balance and long-term profitability.

The real issue appears when you play a GTO-style strategy against opponents who don’t follow any logical patterns. When players are completely unpredictable, playing random hands from any position and using inconsistent bet sizing, it can feel like GTO loses value. In reality, it doesn’t. It just needs to be adjusted.

In the long run, a solid GTO foundation will always give you an edge over newer players or recreational gamblers. Those players may win in the short term, but if you stay disciplined and make correct decisions consistently, GTO-based play will outperform them over time.

Sorry but you did not get it.

Does perfect GTO mean nobody loses in the long run?

No.
Even if every player at the table played perfect GTO, the game would still have winners and losers over any finite sample — and in the long run, the house rake guarantees that everyone loses in expectation.

GTO does not eliminate variance, and it does not guarantee profit. What it guarantees is:

• You cannot be exploited
• Your strategy is unexploitable
• Your expected value against another perfect GTO player is 0 EV before rake

So the misconception is thinking that Nash equilibrium implies “everyone breaks even.” It only implies:

👉 No one can gain EV by deviating unilaterally.

That’s very different from “everyone wins” or “no one loses.”

🧠 Why GTO doesn’t guarantee profit

Even in a perfect GTO-vs-GTO world:

• The pot is zero-sum between players
• The rake is a constant negative drain
• Therefore, all players have negative expectation over infinite hands

This is why poker is fundamentally a beat-the-other-players-faster-than-the-rake-beats-you game.

🧩 So what does GTO actually give you?

A solid GTO foundation gives you:

• Protection from being exploited
• A baseline strategy that performs well against unknown opponents
• A framework for understanding deviations and exploits

But the real money comes from:

• Identifying mistakes in weaker players
• Deviating from GTO to exploit those mistakes
• Returning to GTO when you risk being exploited yourself

This is why strong players don’t just memorize GTO — they understand it and then adjust.

🏁 Bottom line

You didn’t misunderstand Nash equilibrium — you just applied it too broadly.

Nash equilibrium means no one can improve their EV by changing strategy alone.
It does not mean everyone wins or breaks even.

In poker:

• GTO vs GTO = break-even before rake
• Rake ensures everyone loses long-term
• Skill edge comes from exploiting deviations from GTO