£ NL HE MTT: Call or fold with flush?

[miklcct]

Game

Hold'em

Game Format

No Limit

Table Format

MTT

Freeroll

1. Freeroll

AF

0

Currency

£

Blinds 125/250(25), 8 players

Hero at UTG+1, stack 7181 (after ante) (starting stack 10000), 40 minutes into the tournament with placing approx. 160/180 with bubble size 47.

UTG open limped, Hero limped with 5s3s, UTG+2 folded, UTG+3 limped, CO, BTN, SB folded, BB checked.

Flop 9s7sJd, BB, UTG checked, Hero bet 663 (50%), UTG+3 called, BB folded, UTG called.

Turn 8c, UTG checked, Hero bet 1657 (50%), UTG+3 and UTG called.

River 8s, forming a flush with any two s in hand, and also straights with a variety of cards. UTG bet 8285 (100%), Hero's stack is now only 4611. Should I call all in with my flush? How likely the other two people are also holding spades instead of cards to form straight or nothing?

 

[monkeytilter]

It's a freeroll, you've limped suited junk to make a flush so why fold now?

Top of my head 1 time in 6 you'll be over flushed, the fact there has been heavy betting makes this more likely though and Full house beats you here too, but this a freeroll so they could be wildly over playing. Call and sign up to the next freeroll if you are wrong (and stop limping crappy hands in bad spots pre).

 

[bremp555]

Interesting spot! That river is definitely tricky, when the 8♠ hits, it completes both potential flushes and straights, so the board becomes pretty dynamic. Your small flush with 5♠3♠ is definitely vulnerable here, especially with two other players still in the hand. When UTG overbets 100% pot into two players after all that action, it usually represents a very strong polarized range, likely the nut flush or maybe a straight that’s trying to look like a bluff.

In freerolls especially, people don’t often bluff huge on rivers like that, so I’d lean towards folding unless you’ve seen this opponent get out of line before. The chances that both other players also have spades are not super high, but the one betting that big almost always has it. Folding the small flush might feel tight, but it’s probably the smart move long term, especially this deep in a tournament with bubble pressure building.

 

[Lux12]

Often I will fold this situation

 

[hobojim1247]

Usually fold , unless my read said otherwise.

 

[Fallenglory]

I think reason why you are in a spot like this is cause you played a hand like by limping. I think you start with either raise or fold.

As played you cannot get much better then a flush with a holding like this. So I'd likely call 80% of the time here.

 

[Four Dogs]

I think reason why you are in a spot like this is cause you played a hand like by limping. I think you start with either raise or fold.

As played you cannot get much better then a flush with a holding like this. So I'd likely call 80% of the time here.

Totally, fold this junk PF. And why are you betting flop and turn? You aren't near deep enough to be playing speculative hands like that. You need to be focused on high cards and pairs. You can open up a little on the CO or BTN. As played, you just binked your hand and your debating whether or not to fold? You should be debating whether to Jam. The answer to that is yes, Bombs Away. If you're beat then you're beat. He could be doing this with a straight or 2 pair or even a rivered set. Hell, this is a freeroll, he could have just about anything. Don't be afraid of monsters under the bed. AND STOP LIMPING WITH JUNK! or anything else for that matter.

 

[miklcct]

How should I play speculative hands? In a cash game of course I am going to fold this but when there is pressure of antes and blinds building up I can't play too few hands.

 

[jordanmt91]

Really difficult to fold a flush there IMO.

 

[miklcct]

I think reason why you are in a spot like this is cause you played a hand like by limping. I think you start with either raise or fold.

As played you cannot get much better then a flush with a holding like this. So I'd likely call 80% of the time here.

This hand didn't warrant a raise but when the antes and blinds were building up I want to try a luck in drawing. It turned out that all 3 of us held similar hands and I lost to others with 2 higher spades.

 

[monkeytilter]

This hand didn't warrant a raise but when the antes and blinds were building up I want to try a luck in drawing. It turned out that all 3 of us held similar hands and I lost to others with 2 higher spades.

This is the problem with low speculative hands like this, when the chips go in on a big pot you are so often behind.
IMHO suited connectors are over rated in multiway pots and especially so with the baby cards.

Better to stick to the higher cards in freerolls, you want impatient villains to show up with second best hands.

 

[miklcct]

This is the problem with low speculative hands like this, when the chips go in on a big pot you are so often behind.
IMHO suited connectors are over rated in multiway pots and especially so with the baby cards.

Better to stick to the higher cards in freerolls, you want impatient villains to show up with second best hands.

If I wait until AA, KK, QQ, AK or similar I would have most likely been blinded out in about 10 orbits.

I couldn't afford to open something like A3 and fold afterwards when a villain starts to bet / raise aggressively when the flop hits his hand.

 

[monkeytilter]

If I wait until AA, KK, QQ, AK or similar I would have most likely been blinded out in about 10 orbits.

I couldn't afford to open something like A3 and fold afterwards when a villain starts to bet / raise aggressively when the flop hits his hand.

There is a very wide gap between limping 53s UTG+1 and waiting for AA..QQ, AK.
No-one is saying you should play like a nit and blind out but you will not succeed limping suited junk hands in early position like this.

Try and play very tight UTG, UTG+1 (Say 88..AA, AQ/AK) and add more hands as your seat gets closer to the button.

 

[Four Dogs]

How should I play speculative hands? In a cash game of course I am going to fold this but when there is pressure of antes and blinds building up I can't play too few hands.

That's a worthwhile question and the answer is that you shouldn't, or at least you should be a bit pickier and not limp from upfront, ever! You might consider limping with stronger fully suited connectors from the button or big blind (don't limp from the sb either) but 53s isn't even an SC. Speculative hands are hands that will usually not win without improvement. With something like 9Ts you might still be good with top pair but 53 needs way too much help to be profitable.
In a cash game you really need to be able to make 15-20 times the bet size to be worthwhile to play but that includes the possibility of being able to win with a pair alone. 53 just doesn't cut the mustard.

You're in horrible position. What are you going to do if you get raised? Folding will be better than calling. What are you doing when you flop a pair? Bet? Not advisable. All you can do is check and hope to see a showdown.

BTW, that goes for low pairs too. Just fold 22-66 from epoxy. You're not getting a price to set mine.

Yeah, I know you don't want to get blinded out but you have almost 30bb's. That's still a healthy stack so don't be in such a rush to stack off. When you get down to 5bb or so then you might think about rolling the dice with that hand but even then I'm waiting to ship it from the button or SB.

 

[eetenor]

If I wait until AA, KK, QQ, AK or similar I would have most likely been blinded out in about 10 orbits.

I couldn't afford to open something like A3 and fold afterwards when a villain starts to bet / raise aggressively when the flop hits his hand.

53 A3 are not strong hands, why would you think if I do not limp 53 I will have to raise A3?
Yes the blinds are going up but losing all our chips playing dominated ranges does not help that at all.
Sure the hand might win but the frequencies of wins is far too low to have real value for us.

It seems that you are not thinking about your Villains' ranges---It is not just our cards but our cards vs their cards. Being range dominated is the biggest error we can make.

53 does not play well multiway A3 EP open not good. when called we are often dominated and will, as in this case lose far too many chips. These types of hands do not do well in those spots. It is why we change our range depending on what seat we are in. The blinds going up has nothing to do with taking bad lines in early positions.

GTO WIZARD has a free version you can study ranges preflop in 8 handed MTT from 100bb down to 10bb--

thank me later

 

[fundiver199]

Preflop
Its way to loose to limp behind with a hand like 53s from early position. Its a common misconception, that such hands play super well multiway, but as come into play later in this hand, that is not the case, since they rarely make the nuts. If board is A24 (not monotone), ok then 53 is the nuts. But other than that the hand make a low flush, the low end of a straight, bottom two pair or trips with a bad kicker. So you are often setting yourself up for a reverse implied odds situation, and you cant effectively bluff, when several people see the flop.

Flop
Even though you have 9 outs, this is a pretty poor draw. You are basically drawing to the nut low flush, and you have no straightdraw or overcards to give you added equity. If for instance you had KQ of spades, a T would give you a straight, and a K or Q would give you top pair, so this would be a way stronger draw than 53 of spades, that might improve to bottom pair.

You are also against 3 opponents on a very connected board, where it is extremely likely, that at least someone flopped something, they want to continue with, like top pair or a pair + gutshot. Or even a straight or two pair, in which case you might get raised. So while there is some merit in betting here to sort of set your own price, I think, its more of a check-call spot. Or if the action behind you get crazy like some massive overbet or a bet and a raise, you can just fold and get out cheap.

Turn
When 2 players called on the flop, I would not continue betting this turn card. If someone just made a straight, you risk getting raised and blown off your equity. So even more than on the flop I think, this is a check and evaluate spot. Hope that the player behind you check back or give you a price to draw.

River
Now UTG comes out leading, which indicate, that he just improved, and he could have you beat not only with a better flush but also a full house, since the board has paired. Even so you made your hand, so I just dont see, how you can fold now, especially since you are getting almost 3:1. Maybe once in a blue moon he is overplaying a straight or trips, or he has some kind of weird bluff. So as others have said, sigh-call and register for the next freeroll, if you lose.